WotC Layoffs - Rob Heinsoo, Logan Bonner, and Chris Sims

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M.L. Martin

Adventurer
At any rate, most of the people who worked on D&D when I was there are gone now, and the ones who are left will probably be gone sooner or later and replaced by newer employees who are brought in at lower salaries. It's a despicable practice, absolutely unconscionable, but it's become par for the course since WotC was sold to Hasbro.

You'd know better than I would, but I was under the impression that the Christmas layoff pattern at WotC predated the Hasbro acquisition--even predated WotC's acquisition of TSR, actually. Am I wrong, or is it just the replacement with newer employees you're talking about?
 

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Kzach

Banned
Banned
I mean, seriously, if you disapprove of things that a company is doing it seems rather silly to continue to support them out of fear that they'll do more of what you're disapproving of. Do nothing? Rail impotently?

There's a pretty large disparity between a company letting people go as part of a regular fiscal cycle, or even just because they want to improve their bottom line, or heck, even just out of pure spite because of internal politics, and Nike child slave labour in third world countries.

Making a mountain out of a mole hill causes more problems than it solves. The answer to your question is that people should choose their battles with a little more wisdom and forethought. Some battles are worth fighting, and some are just petty and pointless.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
So, what would you suggest?

I mean, seriously, if you disapprove of things that a company is doing it seems rather silly to continue to support them out of fear that they'll do more of what you're disapproving of. Do nothing? Rail impotently?

I am saying its a huge double standard.

You are posting using an ISP that probably laid people off. You continue to support that ISP though. Because it's simply not something you looked into or probably care a whole lot about.

You care about games though, so you punish more game designers by not supporting their company. Meanwhile, you reward your ISP because it's not something you care as much about.

It's totally backwards thinking. We should be supporting the companies who produce the things we like the most MORE now, not less. In this economy, our support is what allows for game designers to have a job at all.

I mean, what reaction do you think you could get if your "protest" were successful? Do you think a) they will never lay people off again, or b) they will lay more people off because now they are making even less money? The answer is b. You would be effecting the layoff of another employee whose work you probably like.

We're customers and the only thing we've got is our patronage and dollar. Period. Sure, you'll hear talk from companies saying that they listen to their customers, but what they really mean is that they watch how customers spend their money.

Sure, removing our dollars from WotC's future coffers would result in tighter times, more folks losing their jobs, but if you expect a change from WotC, if you expect them to notice that you're irked at them, withdrawal of purchasing power is the only real way to impact them. It sucks, it's sad, but that's the nature of economics.

Except they won't notice. They will never track this event to loss of future revenue. There isn't anyone looking for that kind of distant link, nor frankly should there be. All it will mean is a while from now at another end of year they will see less money and lay more people off. Nobody will every say "gee it's because of the last lay off".

Maybe if they were better about layoffs, maybe if they showed a record of hiring folks back,

Um, they do though. It's in this thread. They often do rehiring in January and February. Of course, that is unless your plan actually works, in which case they won't have the money to do that rehiring.

This kind of "protest" is one stage thinking. It doesn't contemplate the actual likely ramifications of your actions.
 
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Darrin Drader

Explorer
You'd know better than I would, but I was under the impression that the Christmas layoff pattern at WotC predated the Hasbro acquisition--even predated WotC's acquisition of TSR, actually. Am I wrong, or is it just the replacement with newer employees you're talking about?

My perception is that Peter Adkison was never as layoff-happy as Hasbro-WotC is. Since my personal experience with WotC started after the Hasbro acquisition, and the fact that I happen to think Peter Adkison is a great human being, I admit that my perception could be inaccurate. I don't have the numbers from before the Hasbro layoffs, but I did see a significant downsizing of the company that was a direct result of the corporate merger while I worked there.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
December seems like a bad time to let people go, even if it does make economic sense to do so for the company.

Better than January, I think. Imagine having splashed out on an expensive Christmas and then losing your job.

There's a pretty large disparity between a company letting people go as part of a regular fiscal cycle, or even just because they want to improve their bottom line, or heck, even just out of pure spite because of internal politics, and Nike child slave labour in third world countries.

Sure, but it's up to him where the line is drawn as far as his wallet is concerned. He's decided where to draw it; nobody can tell him he's wrong to do so. Your line is clearly in a different place.

Not that a couple of people on the intrawebs are exactly going to have an effect; but that's beside the point.
 

M.L. Martin

Adventurer
My perception is that Peter Adkison was never as layoff-happy as Hasbro-WotC is. Since my personal experience with WotC started after the Hasbro acquisition, and the fact that I happen to think Peter Adkison is a great human being, I admit that my perception could be inaccurate. I don't have the numbers from before the Hasbro layoffs, but I did see a significant downsizing of the company that was a direct result of the corporate merger while I worked there.

OK--it looks like there were substantial layoffs in 1995 (with the dissolution of the whole RPG department), and if my memory's not playing tricks on me, there may have been a round in 1996 as well. I seem to remember comments on Usenet about that time that it suggested it was becoming a pattern, but that might have been internet snark.

However, I hadn't remembered that Hasbro's acquisition of WotC goes back to 1999. That actually explains a few things--I had thought the shift in culture I perceived/read into matters was due to TSR finally being absorbed by WotC, but the Hasbro acquisition and (more importantly) the changeover in key personnel would be much more likely.
 

Friadoc

Explorer
I am saying its a huge double standard.

You are posting using an ISP that probably laid people off. You continue to support that ISP though. Because it's simply not something you looked into or probably care a whole lot about.

You care about games though, so you punish more game designers by not supporting their company. Meanwhile, you reward your ISP because it's not something you care as much about.

It's totally backwards thinking. We should be supporting the companies who produce the things we like the most MORE now, not less. In this economy, our support is what allows for game designers to have a job at all.

I mean, what reaction do you think you could get if your "protest" were successful? Do you think a) they will never lay people off again, or b) they will lay more people off because now they are making even less money? The answer is b. You would be effecting the layoff of another employee whose work you probably like.



Except they won't notice. They will never track this event to loss of future revenue. There isn't anyone looking for that kind of distant link, nor frankly should there be. All it will mean is a while from now at another end of year they will see less money and lay more people off. Nobody will every say "gee it's because of the last lay off".



Um, they do though. It's in this thread. They often do rehiring in January and February. Of course, that is unless your plan actually works, in which case they won't have the money to do that rehiring.

This kind of "protest" is one stage thinking. It doesn't contemplate the actual likely ramifications of your actions.


While Charter has had layoffs, they've seemed better timed and bettered executed, especially those stemming from their restructuring last year. Sure, they suck, but layoffs are only suppose to be seasonal in industries that are seasonal, ala construction wildfire watchtower workers, and so forth.

If you have layoffs they should be to improve the companies fiscal fortitude, to the point that you don't have them the following year, thus showing an improvement in overall business.

As a previous Hasbro investor, who sold his stock due to dissatisfaction with choices being made, I don't have that much confidence in a company who seems to think being an unstable employer as good business.

As for the hiring in January and February, I'd have more respect for it if they were hiring back those that they previously laid off. Heck, I'm sure they could do a seasonal reduction in workforce, except it doesn't cut as much out of their bottom line as they'd like since they'd still have to maintain some level of HR footprint. Instead, they often laid folks off and hire new folks, and then repeat the process again come the next holiday season.

It ain't good business, in my opinion, as it shows an unstable employer, a lack of loyalty to employees, and weak job security. *shrugs*

But, I should just bow out of this at this point, especially since I've not bought a WotC product since sometime in the spring and I cancelled my DDI renewal at about the same time. Which, I guess, means I'm partially responsible for the layoffs.

Of course, WotC and its parent company is more responsible and could use better choices in management to handle such situations better.
 

pawsplay

Hero
I wish all the laid off persons, as well as WotC, the best in finding ways to meet their goals and prosper. Happy holidays to all, regardless.
 

pogre

Legend
Good luck men. I'm sorry this happened. I enjoyed much of your work. I'm certain talented fellows such as you are will land on your feet. Take care.
 

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