tank Paladin / Multiclass

Greetings, and thanks for taking the time to read this.

I am currently a level 8 Paladin (first time I play a constant D&D Campaign so bare with me)

I am looking into multiclassing, and would like a little guidance as to what to choose if at all.

I am the main tank of the party, which has a cleric bard barbarian and rogue.
My powers are basically oriented to maintain as many marked targets as I can and with a secondary focus on healing.

Str. 15
Con. 11
Dex. 10
Int. 12
Wis. 15
Cha. 19

So I was thinking on taking the warden feat, and thus multiclassing in to it as to become a better tank, but they use mostly Con based powers and I dont have much of that. My other choice was going to be Avenger... any insights would be much appreciated. One more time thank you.

Paladin in my party has similar build, and picked Warlord multiclass for the daily heal and Athletics training. I don't think he intends to pick up any powers though. Bardic Dilettante may also be good for the same reason, and a wider selection of skills to pick from.

I'd say warden is a good choice if you want the extra marking, though as a charisma paladin you should have plenty of ways to multi-mark.

Battle Awareness is another good option, especially since it opens up some nice Fighter paragon paths.

Whatever you pick, I wouldn't bother with any power swaps. Paladin powers are good enough for the paladin.

cool thanks, ill look into your suggestions.

Yeah, Strength and Wisdom are a Fighter's two prime attributes, which makes it look like you'd be well served to jump thataway, especially as Level 11 is going to get you another plus for Str, Wis, and Cha each.

If you do multiclass to Fighter, there are some very good Fighter paragon path, plus some Fighter exploits that are at least worth considering for power-swaps, especially if you have any prayers you don't really like.

Your only high stat is Charisma, which limits your choices. Unless you're just looking at Utility powers, you'll need to actually land attacks with the powers you pick up through your multiclass. As such, you should probably stick to a Charisma based class so that you have a decent attack stat.

Since you already have two Leaders, I don't think M/Cing Bard would be that great of an idea. This leaves you with one of the two Arcane Strikers, such as a Sorcerer or a Warlock. But since these are Strikers, and you already have two of those too with the Barbarian and the Rogue, that's not a great option either. Plus, it would require you to use an implement, which leaves out using a shield or a two-handed weapon (dropping your defense or your damage, neither of which is good for a Defender) in order to gain a few extra powers.

Now, if you ignore picking up powers, which I would recommend, you have a lot of different options. M/Cing Fighter or Warden would probably be your best bet, since they have tons of feats that would increase your ability to defend. For example, if you were using a Dragonborn Pally, you could M/C Warden and pick up Primal Breath (Primal Power Heroic feat) to mark all targets of your Dragon Breath power. Or pick up the second Warden M/C feat, Warden's Endurance (Primal Power M/C feat) in order to get a once per encounter chance to make a save at the start of your turn. This could be a handy way to save out of a daze or stun effect, thus allowing you to maintain Divine Challenge and remain a threat on the battlefield.

M/Cing Fighter can give you access to things like Martial Freedom (Martial Power Heroic feat for any Martial class), provided you have training in Endurance. +5 to saves against slow and immobilize, which can be combined with items that grant another +2, is nothing to sneeze at for a Defender. Again, it's also something that will help you be able to meet your "engage" requirements on Divine Challenge.

You have a bard and a cleric. The LAST thing you'll need is healing.

You have a rogue and a barbarian. The LASt thing you'll need is damage.


What you need, is -control.-


1) A defender is well served by having a Grasping weapon as a side weapon. Couple that with Wisdom likely being important to you and you come to the conclusion that a multiclass should:

Be a controlling class that works well with a throwing spear and keys off of wisdom.

The seeker multiclass will allow you, once per encounter, to use a power to toss the spear. I like Biting Swarm. If you hit the guy, great, he and any adjacent enemy get -2 to hit. If you miss, you can then use Inevitable Shot to hit some other guy.

And whichever guy you hit, you can teleport next to you with the grasping spear.

-That- is a damn good trick for a defender.

Remember that if you MC into another Defender and that MC allows you to Mark, those Marks are NOT Divine Sanctions or Divine Challenges. The only effect is that the monster gets a -2 to hit enemies that aren't you, they don't take damage for it as they would with a Divine Sanction/Challenge.

That said, DracoSuave is right. Your group needs control more then anything and and Seeker is a good choice. If not I'd take Battle Awareness (Figher MC) so you can punish a shift once/encounter.

I see, guess Ill have to go back to the drawing board again. Thanks everyone ill take into consideration all you have said.

Can we have the full build with all powers and feats please?

The core question here is: Why do you want to multiclass? Is it just to write a second class on the character sheet? I just don't see an urgent need for it. You could just as well take a generic useful feat like Toughness. The question is whether the multiclass feat is an excellent choice by itself, compared to other feats.

Hero of Faith (or whatever that Avenger feat was called) is a good option, though. Rolling twice to attack is never wrong, not just for more damage. It's not that good for Charisma Paladins, though, because it doesn't work on their many burst powers, and it also doesn't work on melee attacks when you are surrounded, which should happen quite often.

You may need to multiclass to get into a certain Paragon Path, maybe you should consider that first.

mkill said:

Can we have the full build with all powers and feats please?

The core question here is: Why do you want to multiclass? Is it just to write a second class on the character sheet? I just don't see an urgent need for it. You could just as well take a generic useful feat like Toughness. The question is whether the multiclass feat is an excellent choice by itself, compared to other feats.

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Both good points. Knowing what you were planning on doing with your multiclass, as well as what your current build/power/feat selection is would help a lot.

As mkill said though, the main thing is figuring out why you want to multiclass. If it's just to do something better as a Defender, you need to ask yourself if you really need a multiclass for that, or is there a general/racial/class feat that could help with that instead.

For example, I play a Sorcerer in one of my games, and part of me wants to try out multiclassing with him. When I really thought about it though, there's nothing really special want to do, it's more about just wanting to try something interesting. Many of the combinations I was looking at (Fighter, Bard, Warlock, etc...) weren't really going to add a lot to my character. Then I got my hands on the PHB Races: Dragonborn book, and found tons of feats that I could spend and get to do what I wanted, which is basically just find new and better ways to blow things up (preferably with Lightning).

So figure out the why first, and then that will help to figure out what you should do for that how.