D&D 4E Encounter Based 4E - Thoughts?

P1NBACK · Apr 21, 2010

This is the beginnings of my idea for an "encounter-based" 4E. I hate hate hate that resource management is based on a meta-level (encounters) and also an "in-game" level (days? wtf...).

So, this is my response. It's an attempt to also speed up combat.

Here's my idea:

This is a low-magic campaign using the inherent bonuses rule in the DMG2. As such, there are no magic items, and thus no magic item daily powers.

Daily Powers from classes are gone entirely (I don't know of any daily racial ability).

Instead, whenever you would take a daily power, you may take an encounter power of your level or lower (so I could have two 3rd Level Encounters and 1 1st level Encounter at 5th Level).

Healing Surges are removed. Instead you can use your second wind 1/encounter to regain 1/4 HP, and all "healing" powers become encounter based (x times per encounter). At the end of an encounter, you automatically heal to full HP wi th an appropriate amount of time based on the fiction.

Multi-class feats that give you a power once per day becomes 1/encounter.

Monster HP are halved.

And, use 3d6 in place of d20 (attacks will hit more often, meaning those "reliable" and miss effect dailies won't be missed as much).

Thoughts?

Antronach · Apr 21, 2010

Sounds like a different game... maybe even a more boring one. I'm using enhancement modifiers in my current campaign, 3 sessions in and i hate it. Daily abilities and magic items just bring to much bonus flavour to the table.

P1NBACK · Apr 21, 2010

Antronach said:
Sounds like a different game... maybe even a more boring one. I'm using enhancement modifiers in my current campaign, 3 sessions in and i hate it. Daily abilities and magic items just bring to much bonus flavour to the table.

How does a daily power have any more "flavor" than an encounter power?

I don't buy it.

This is a low-magic campaign about the _characters_, not their phat lootz.

Antronach · Apr 21, 2010

I guess we play for the high fantasy feel. Daily powers represent luck and skill coming together in a rare way, and for the players to think before they act, when they want to use their powers and such. Magic items on their own make the players feel more empowered. And the effects can either just be read off or used well.

My old group had a rogue with a flaming dagger, got a killing blow off using it's daily power. So instead of him just dying "The dagger punctures his armor and ignites him, he lets out a scream and dies running around on fire, slumping to the ground"

Of course, it's possible for cool stuff to happen without magic items, they just add a little touch.

On another note, what happens to warlords in that campaign, their healing is purely non magical.

P1NBACK · Apr 21, 2010

Antronach said:
I guess we play for the high fantasy feel. Daily powers represent luck and skill coming together in a rare way, and for the players to think before they act, when they want to use their powers and such. Magic items on their own make the players feel more empowered. And the effects can either just be read off or used well.

My old group had a rogue with a flaming dagger, got a killing blow off using it's daily power. So instead of him just dying "The dagger punctures his armor and ignites him, he lets out a scream and dies running around on fire, slumping to the ground"

Of course, it's possible for cool stuff to happen without magic items, they just add a little touch.

I don't think you need magic for good description. That's my opinion.

Antronach said:
On another note, what happens to warlords in that campaign, their healing is purely non magical.

All healing is non-magical. Right? That's how I see it anyways.

Antronach · Apr 21, 2010

So you're leaving magic powers in, i must have misread that. I'm just a bit iffy on the taking out of healing surges. But if you're looking to remove the need for extended rests entirely, i guess it works.

Mr. Teapot · Apr 21, 2010

You're seriously messing with the system here. (Perhaps the thread belongs in the Houserules forum?)

You're really changing things enough that it will have a variety of unexpected and unintended consequences. For example: some classes have better Dailies than others, and others have better Encounter Powers. Wizards have really strong Daily powers, and Barbarians and Wardens rely on Dailies. Also, Utility powers become a bit of an issue.

Here's another idea: don't lose Dailies altogether. Instead, consider that, after 9th level or so the typical PC has enough Dailies to use one every single encounter. So let them do just that: you get your full selection of Daily powers for a character or your level, but can only use one Daily power each fight. Once you use one Daily power, you can't use another Daily power this encounter. But next encounter you could use any Daily power again (even the same one).

At low levels this would increase a PC's power (Daily every encounter), but your goal is to speed things up, so it might not be a problem. At higher levels, it's just giving versatility to PCs. And even possibly weakening them some, as they lose the ability to blow three Dailies in one big boss fight.

It still would have kinks and unintended consequences, though. PCs could spam a given Daily every encounter (Consecrated Ground, I'm looking at you).

Or, if your main complaint is the mixing of meta-game Encounters and in-character days, just change Days to be "every four encounters" or "after we reach an appropriate conclusion to a chapter of plot, regardless of how many IC days it takes".

RangerWickett · Apr 21, 2010

No, he's not getting rid of healing surges. It's just that you never track them. If a warlord uses inspiring word on you, you'll always heal. There's no running out of surges during a combat.

My suggestion would be to make sure players are encouraged to be creative. Daily powers, while I hate them too from a pacing perspective, do have the mild benefit of making sure there are some powers that don't get used every combat.

However, I'd recommend one or both of the following:

a) Give the PCs a "do something cool" power card, usable at-will, with stats from page 42 in the DMG. This reminds them that they can always come up with a clever trick instead of using pre-made powers.

Additionally, even when using normal attack powers, if the player describes it with any detail more than "I use [power name]," they get a +2 cool bonus to the attack roll.

and/or

b) replace the normal action point mechanic with a Battle Surge meter. Each PC's meter starts at 0 at the beginning of an encounter, and goes up 1 at the start of each of his turns. It also goes up 1 when first bloodied, and by another 2 the first time the whole party is bloodied at the same time. Maybe grant some other bonus based on character class or personality, like a necromancer gets +1 if he spends a minor action standing over a dead body to suck out its soul.

When the Battle Surge meter (BS meter? maybe this needs a different name) reaches 5, the PC gets an action point. If it reaches 10 he gets another action point and gains access to 'Do Something Awesome.' What counts as awesome depends on your group's play style.

Samir · Apr 21, 2010

P1NBACK said:
This is the beginnings of my idea for an "encounter-based" 4E. I hate hate hate that resource management is based on a meta-level (encounters) and also an "in-game" level (days? wtf...).

4E power resource management isn't based on anything except rests. To regain an encounter power, you have to take a short rest; to regain a daily, you have to take an extended rest. It's not based on "encounters" or "days," no matter what the power names tell you.

That said, I like low magic campaigns and I think this will work okay, though (as other posters have pointed out) you will have some balance issues.

sev · Apr 22, 2010

Samir said:
4E power resource management isn't based on anything except rests. To regain an encounter power, you have to take a short rest; to regain a daily, you have to take an extended rest. It's not based on "encounters" or "days," no matter what the power names tell you.

This.

Regarding the OP, I'm not sure what's WTF about "days," so I don't know whether changing it to "a six hour break that can only occur more than 12 hours since the last one" falls into the same trap.