[4e] Would Star Pact Warlocks be Opposed to Psionics?

If psionics are the world's reaction to the incursion of the Far Realm, and if star pact warlocks gain their powers from pacts with creatures from the Far Realm, would it then be safe to say that a star pact warlock might find himself in opposition to a psionic character?

It's never expressly stated that star pact warlocks have anything to do with the far realm, instead making pacts with various stars and beings in the heavens.

It's implied that it's far-realm territory, but not stated. I'd guess that would be a campaign specific thing. Napalm was created to clear foliage, but that doesn't mean that someone using it hates trees.

Yeah, I think there would be some conflict between Star Pact Warlocks and psionic characters. It's not a given; a Star Pact Warlock could use that power to thwart whatever entities dwell at the centre of the universe.

Are Star Pact warlocks the minions of the Far Realms? Are they actively (and I mean knowingly) going out and doing the Bidding of the Far Realms to further its goals?

If not, then why would they be at odds with Psionics?

Further argument:

1) Psionics aren't trying to destroy the Far Realms, just keeping it from getting closer/further entrenched/whatnot. To put it another way, the Infernal Pact warlocks have pacts with devils trapped or otherwise "over a barrel" in Hell itself. The Infernal Warlock would not be at odds with someone who goes out preventing Hell from spilling over any further into the real world, or who seeks to defeat Asmodeus. Because the things the Infernal warlock is making pacts with are prisoners of the denizens of Hell, or those "over a barrel", so those in charge of Hell are not on the Infernal Warlock's side.

With this in mind, given the "ineffible" nature of the beings in the Far Realms or whatever the Warlock has made a pact with, they may not necessarily want to encroach on Reality.

2) The Warlock isn't necessarily making a pact with anything specific. At least, he doesn't have to. By simply Understanding the Knowledge of the Stars, by "Peering into the Far Realms", the mere sight and knowledge of what Man IS Not Meant To Know would give him that power. It'd be like being half-sane, stained by what he saw, but that part which is insane has gleaned certain Power by Understanding something that is unable to be Understood. A portion of his mind has been torn out and replaced with UnReality, and from this area come his power.

So he owes no allegiance to any entity.

3) If the Far Realms invades Reality and everything is made an Aberration, and Reality as We Know it is Rent Asunder for the Otherness, then the Warlock is probably going to die become an Aberration himself. Hey, he's got power while the Entities are all the way out there. Them being any closer doesn't mean he's any more powerful.

Rechan said:

So he owes no allegiance to any entity.

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I think that they had a great opportunity to add tons of RP flavour into the game with Warlocks, but missed it.

It's called a Pact. That implies a bargain of some sort. In my hack of 4E I've changed this so that the bargain is detailed (and perhaps the details of the bargaining itself). If the Warlock goes against the wishes of his patron, the patron can deny the Warlock access to his spell (unless the Warlock makes a check).

LostSoul said:

I think that they had a great opportunity to add tons of RP flavour into the game with Warlocks, but missed it.

It's called a Pact. That implies a bargain of some sort. In my hack of 4E I've changed this so that the bargain is detailed (and perhaps the details of the bargaining itself). If the Warlock goes against the wishes of his patron, the patron can deny the Warlock access to his spell (unless the Warlock makes a check).

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Cool idea, but is it worth the trouble? 4E doesn't even really address what happens when *Clerics* cross their patrons. I assume this was left as a "big ol' question mark" in the rules so that it could be tailored by DMs to the individual game.

doctorhook said:

Cool idea, but is it worth the trouble?

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That is for the Warlock to decide. Seriously though, we'll see.

The thing about tailoring it to the specific game - there's not much that points you in that direction. Imagine if warlocks had an extra Daily at certain levels, and it said, "When you do your patron's bidding..." Then you might see it; as it stands, there's no reason to treat a Warlock's spells as any different from a Wizard's or a Cleric's prayers. (I imagine that would be something like a magic item.)

Even if they did it in a subtle manner and powers and abilities of Warlocks pointed to a lacuna formed by the rules around it - then you'd see DMs forced to make decisions for their campaigns.

They've printed enough books to add something like that in as an option.

PS. I love Warlocks. So much potential in that class.

I think it's implied that the Warlock is working against (or at least orthogonal) to the wishes of whatever they're sworn to. Certainly a Hell Pact and a Paladin of Bahamut can be in the same party, right?

You could have conflict, if you wanted, but it's not necessary, and it might not even be much fun, if it means you spend more time arguing than adventuring.

The Dragon article on star pact warlocks addresses the issue of the star pact and the Far Realm, at least partially:

(Dragon 366) Wish Upon a Star

There are two good DDI articles on the subject of warlock pacts:

(Dragon 381) Performing the Pact: Warlock Patrons

(Dungeon 174) Sealing the Pact: Developing Patrons for Warlocks

"Performing the Pact" details a star pact patron, Ulban the Messenger, which is basically a comet that has traveled back in time from the end of the universe, and is now trying to stop said end. So not a Far Realm aberration (at least not explicitly), but still very cool and alien.

LostSoul said:

I think that they had a great opportunity to add tons of RP flavour into the game with Warlocks, but missed it.

It's called a Pact. That implies a bargain of some sort. In my hack of 4E I've changed this so that the bargain is detailed (and perhaps the details of the bargaining itself). If the Warlock goes against the wishes of his patron, the patron can deny the Warlock access to his spell (unless the Warlock makes a check).

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Dragon went into further details about pacts at one point, even giving some sample patrons - including a star pact patron.

My group went into more detail with the pact for an infernal warlock and had a lot of fun.