Sleep Poison not a Sleep Effect?!?!?!?!?!

Final_boss325 · Jun 13, 2010

This is going to sound like the stupidest question in the freaking world, but is "Sleep Poison" not a sleep effect?!

To clarify, let me provide the situation. I was playing my Dragon Shaman (9th Lvl) last night in our bi-weekly 3.5 campaign. I get shot with a poisoned arrow that had some sort of sleep poison on it. I was instructed by the DM to make a fort save against the poison, to which I immediately said that I was immune to the sleep effect, due to draconic resolve. To which he replied that Draconic Resolve only works against things like spells/spell-like abilities. That I'm not immune to poison, so I still suffer the effects.

Draconic Resolve - Gained at Dragon Shaman 4th lvl. "You are immune to sleep and paralysis effects. You are also immune to the frightful presence of dragons."

I'm sorry, but how does a poison that has the effect of putting one to sleep, NOT COUNT AS A SLEEP EFFECT.

He told me that if I could find a rule in one of the books to back me up that It'd be okay. Search as I did, the ruling I sought was nowhere to be found. I can only assume that I couldn't find it because THE ANSWER IS SO FREAKING OBVIOUS IT SHOULDN'T NEED CLARIFICATION!!!

Opinions/Rulings are appreciated.

Volomon · Jun 13, 2010

Pretty much basic English right there, you are immune to sleep effect, you are not immune to poison however the poison's effect is sleep, so you are immune to the effect of the poison. In other words, yes you have to roll your Fort Save, however it really makes no sense to because although you can fail the Save you can not be affected by the out come.

I really don't see how your DM didn't realize this.

Arduin Angcam · Jun 13, 2010

Hi,

Seems like your DM has mistaken your dragon shaman ability with the sleep immunity of elves. The latter is precisely defined as "magic sleep effects" (source : SRD 3.5/races) whereas Draconic resolve isn't worded the same and seems to include all kind of sleep and paralysis effects. I won't throw him the first stone though as I'd have probably reacted the same on the fly as a DM.

Hope this helps.

Arduin.

IronWolf · Jun 13, 2010

Arduin Angcam said:
Hi,
Seems like your DM has mistaken your dragon shaman ability with the sleep immunity of elves. The latter is precisely defined as "magic sleep effects" (source : SRD 3.5/races) whereas Draconic resolve isn't worded the same and seems to include all kind of sleep and paralysis effects. I won't throw him the first stone though as I'd have probably reacted the same on the fly as a DM.

This is likely the case. Might be worth showing him the phrasing for the sleep immunity of elves compared to the draconic resolve in a non-confrontational manner so he can see the difference in wording.

Runestar · Jun 13, 2010

Which poison is your DM using? I have yet to see a poison which explicitly lists "sleep" as the effect, all list "unconscious", even drow sleep poison.

So yes, I would rule that "sleep" poison would ignore sleep immunity, since it is not really a "sleep" effect, it merely replicates its effects. Plus, I don't see how your dragon shaman can withstand anesthesia being pumped into him.

IronWolf · Jun 13, 2010

Runestar said:
Which poison is your DM using? I have yet to see a poison which explicitly lists "sleep" as the effect, all list "unconscious", even drow sleep poison.

I had wondered about this angle as well, since we don't know for certain what poison was used since the original post says "I get shot with a poisoned arrow that had some sort of sleep poison on it".

Knowing the exact poison used could make a difference in the ruling. Good catch Runestar.

freyar · Jun 13, 2010

Runestar said:
Which poison is your DM using? I have yet to see a poison which explicitly lists "sleep" as the effect, all list "unconscious", even drow sleep poison.

So yes, I would rule that "sleep" poison would ignore sleep immunity, since it is not really a "sleep" effect, it merely replicates its effects. Plus, I don't see how your dragon shaman can withstand anesthesia being pumped into him.

FWIW, many monsters have poison that has sleep as an effect (pseudodragons are a low-CR example). So it really would depend on the type of poison.

Volomon · Jun 13, 2010

I'm assuming he meant actual sleep poison since it was quoted, but if the DM called it sleep poison and it wasn't it was still his mistake.

Eldritch_Lord · Jun 13, 2010

Runestar said:
So yes, I would rule that "sleep" poison would ignore sleep immunity, since it is not really a "sleep" effect, it merely replicates its effects. Plus, I don't see how your dragon shaman can withstand anesthesia being pumped into him.

That's twisting the semantics, I think. Anything in the game that does something is an "effect" whether it's a spell, SLA, monster ability, or anything else. If you're immune to sleep effects, you're immune to sleep and deep slumber, a dragon's sleep breath, sleep poison, and anything else that would cause you to sleep.

As Volomon noted, he isn't immune to poison, so if for example the poison's damage was "sleep and 1d2 Dex" for whatever reason, he'd still take the Dex damage, but he still wouldn't be put to sleep; a sleep effect is a sleep effect is a sleep effect.

Final_boss325 · Jun 13, 2010

Drow sleep poison. And as for the whole "unconsciousness" vs. "sleep" semantic issue. Sleep isn't even a status effect in the DMG. Even the spells that cause sleep don't really mention sleep beyond the title. However they do mention "become unconscious". So I don't even see how the argument is valid anymore.

Sleep Poison not a Sleep Effect?!?!?!?!?!

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