Mythic[Race] Template help

I've had this idea for awhile now and it needs some help.

I want to create a template for the very first members of the normal races. It would probably be around the power of the Quasi-Deity template. While i could just use that, it doesn't offer the flexibility i'm looking for, plus parts of it don't make sense(like the 4 divine abilities and the +8 to all ability scores, along with some other stuff)

the races i'm thinking of would include, but are not limited to: Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Gnome, Orc, Kobold, Drow, Goblin and Hobgoblin. Races that are Half or a sort of mix don't count, but Wild Elf might, as might other such sub-races or offshoots.

What i really need are some suggestions to help flesh out the few ideas i have:

Each race would obviously get solid increases to their normal counterparts racial bonuses, and would not suffer from the penalties(including light blindness and such). Heck, in some cases they might even have a smaller bonus.

I'm also thinking that while they might not have actual class levels, each race might have an ability that would mimic a class feature, say Elves having caster levels or Humans with Chameleon or Factotum abilities.

I do think that each race might have one Divine Ability as well, along with a decent number of epic feats.

i suppose this could be handled via building each Mythic race separately, but i wanted the freedom of being able to just throw it on the race and be done with it in case i or others wanted to use a Mythic race i didn't create.

Evilmonkeygod said:

I've had this idea for awhile now and it needs some help.

I want to create a template for the very first members of the normal races. It would probably be around the power of the Quasi-Deity template. While i could just use that, it doesn't offer the flexibility i'm looking for, plus parts of it don't make sense(like the 4 divine abilities and the +8 to all ability scores, along with some other stuff)

the races i'm thinking of would include, but are not limited to: Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Gnome, Orc, Kobold, Drow, Goblin and Hobgoblin. Races that are Half or a sort of mix don't count, but Wild Elf might, as might other such sub-races or offshoots.

What i really need are some suggestions to help flesh out the few ideas i have:

Each race would obviously get solid increases to their normal counterparts racial bonuses, and would not suffer from the penalties(including light blindness and such). Heck, in some cases they might even have a smaller bonus.

I'm also thinking that while they might not have actual class levels, each race might have an ability that would mimic a class feature, say Elves having caster levels or Humans with Chameleon or Factotum abilities.

I do think that each race might have one Divine Ability as well, along with a decent number of epic feats.

i suppose this could be handled via building each Mythic race separately, but i wanted the freedom of being able to just throw it on the race and be done with it in case i or others wanted to use a Mythic race i didn't create.

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Around the power of a Quasi-Deity? *whistles* Considering that kind of power is a +20 level adjustment with full equipment (+13 LA without extra equipment), that's some pretty serious power there - but since you're here, in this forum, that's part of what you're looking to capture.

Hmm... offhand, the Divine Ability system is extremely flexible - you could very well modify the Quasi-Deity template and exchange the things that don't fit the mold for Divine Ability slots, which can be pretty much anything of an appropriate power level. IH:A has some pretty good guidelines for that, I thought.

In the end, though, you're going to have to make a choice of whether you want to keep the versatility and creative flair of making a new template for each race and sub-race or whether you want the ease of a single, more generic template that can be applied on the fly.

Hi there evilmonkeygod dude!

have you ever considered just using the Paragon Template from the Epic level handbook?

Seems exactly what you are looking for.

If you're going with racial gods & portfolios (a la the Elf portfolio), it might be interesting to have the firstborn of each race just be an aspect of a racial god... or perhaps better would be to have them have a soul compact with a given god, that way you have the possibility for fallin' from grace if they eat forbidden produce. I don't think aspects have free will... OR DO THEY?

U_K,
the thought of using Paragon did indeed cross my mind but similar to the base Quasi-Deity template offers several things i don't want as well as not offering a lot of what i do want.

For example, were i to make a Mythic Elf template, it would have a solid boost to Int and Dex, with a smaller boost to Wis. I am not sure if i would bother increasing the other three stats or not and if so they would be a much small bonus. I'd also have built in Wizard casting, say 10 levels or so worth. For the Divine ability, i was thinking of one the weapon based ones, since it doesn't make much sense to me to grant them one of the caster ones as opposed to just increasing their inherent Wiz levels.

Beyond that, they'd probably bigger bonuses to their racial skills, as well as increases to skills that current lesser Elves don't have, like say Spellcraft and Knowledge(Arcane). they'd also get a fair amount of caster feats as well as goodly number of martial ones(either for Bows or the Longsword, as chosen by each Elf).

they might get more, might not. I think SLAs would be included as well, but i'm not positive

Given that latest post, you have a partial solution already. You want 10 levels of Wizard on the Elf? Would 10 levels of Factotum work for the Human, and 10 levels of Barbarian work for the Orc? If so, then just (effectively) give the Mythic [Race] the "Extra Level" Divine Ability 10 times. You don't have to write that into the template, just build the template as if you were doing it that way.

You write in the template description that the race gets 10 levels in one class that fits its cultural heritage especially well, and then for other template abilities base it on the creature having 10 Divine Ranks. So, a +10 bonus to all rolls, +20 to each ability score, that sort of thing. But, since you don't want Elves to get +20 STR, for instance, you just take points out of STR and give them to other scores instead- so, say, if you give it only +6 STR, just divide the other 14 points among other scores as you see fit- like +34 INT, or +30 INT and +24 WIS, or whatever works for you.

You'll still have to figure out other things like the AC bonus, how many "virtual skill ranks" to grant (which should logically be tied to the class levels you grant somehow, but will ultimately be expressed as a +X bonus to the chosen skill(s)), and other similar things.

If you want to add Divines on top of that, then just add them, and increase the bonuses normally associated with DR appropriately (for instance, each extra Divine Ability will grant another +2 to each ability score, so that's more points to distribute there).

In the end, you can just take the suggestions in IH: Ascension for "building your own divine templates" and run with them. Making something like a Divine template doesn't mean it actually is a Divine template. The Divine templates given in Ascension are actually the most generic possible versions of templates one can build based on the general principles- adding even a little specificity can make something that looks a lot different and yet functions in very much the same way.

You'll see some examples of what I mean when I get to posting the "Favored of the First Ones" templates in my "crazy cosmology" thread (which I planned to do some time tonight or tomorrow). They're based on exactly this sort of premise, and once you have the basic idea of how to make one it's actually pretty easy to come up with more.

Evilmonkeygod said:

U_K,

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Hiya mate!

the thought of using Paragon did indeed cross my mind but similar to the base Quasi-Deity template offers several things i don't want as well as not offering a lot of what i do want.

For example, were i to make a Mythic Elf template, it would have a solid boost to Int and Dex, with a smaller boost to Wis. I am not sure if i would bother increasing the other three stats or not and if so they would be a much small bonus. I'd also have built in Wizard casting, say 10 levels or so worth. For the Divine ability, i was thinking of one the weapon based ones, since it doesn't make much sense to me to grant them one of the caster ones as opposed to just increasing their inherent Wiz levels.

Beyond that, they'd probably bigger bonuses to their racial skills, as well as increases to skills that current lesser Elves don't have, like say Spellcraft and Knowledge(Arcane). they'd also get a fair amount of caster feats as well as goodly number of martial ones(either for Bows or the Longsword, as chosen by each Elf).

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What about basing it on the Leshay 'elf' in the ELH?

U_K,
think i'll look into Paradox's suggestion regarding IH and templates. it's just too bad the author doesn't hang around here to help out lol j/k.

Leshay is actually similar to the concept i have in mind, though tbh they are regarded as one of the worst build/CR screwed monsters in the ELH.

Paradox,
any chance i too can email you?? i saw you give UK the ok on your cosmo thread, and id like to chat with you as well, since the epic game i play in as well as the one i run is quite crazy itself.

Evilmonkeygod said:

Paradox,
any chance i too can email you?? i saw you give UK the ok on your cosmo thread, and id like to chat with you as well, since the epic game i play in as well as the one i run is quite crazy itself.

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If you like, sure, but what's wrong with working out templates here in the thread? Doing it out in "public" as it were, may benefit others who like the idea, and/or draw suggestions the two of us wouldn't think of.

nothing, i was going to email you about other things, not the template, lol