D&D 4E 4E Conversion

So after playing 4E for a while now, I think I'm in the mood to try and convert the system to something a bit more old school. Basically the idea is that - in my opinion of course - 4E is just too battle heavy, and even when its not, the players don't have their resources expended enough to make tensions run high. It seems the only way to really beat a party down is to throw hard or very hard encounters at them over and over to make any kind of dent. And of course when you do that, your battles run forever and then you spend the entire night fighting.

But at the same time, I want to keep playing 4E, I love the Adventure Tools - I am simply spoiled by the monster stat blocks. Having all the info right there is so much cleaner and more organized than having to look at seperate tables, and searching up spells for a monster you want to use (in older editions).

So what to do? Some idea's I've been throwing around.
1. Remove healing surges completely. Still record the surge value on the character sheet, so when Cleric's or other classes cast a spell that requires a surge, you know how much to heal for. And I still think keeping Second Wind is ok. But otherwise, when battle is over, the player doesn't spend healing surges, and completely negates the skirmish you just had.

2. Give classes multiple melee/ranged attacks every few levels, depending on the type of class would depend on how many extra attacks the class would get. Defenders would get another extra attack every 6 or 7 levels, while Strikers could get one every 4 or 5 levels, Wizards or other pure casters would maybe never get a multiple attack.

3. Make At-wills, Encounters, Daily and Utility powers ALL daily's, and reduce or increase the amount each class gets depending on the class. Basically turning it into a spell system again. Classes like Fighters and Paladin's would get much less compared to a Cleric or Wizard.

These are of course very rough idea's, and I'm still putting together tables for the base classes in the PHB1. But the end result is to have an adventuring party that has a real concern when they are out there. And now you can go back to having smaller skirmishes and making them count, rather than having to have every battle be against a perfectly compiled encounter.

When a party has to think about their resources when they are adventuring makes the tension run a bit higher, and makes players a bit more cautious. Now of course this wouldn't be for everyone. But if you have any idea's or comments i'd love to hear em.

These are all pretty radical changes that will change the game balance considerably. You might want to consider less drastic changes.

For example, one simple change I made was to eliminate the Extended Rest. In my games, Healing Surges and Dailies are per adventure, not per day. The PCs have to shepherd these resources, because they won't come back until the PCs have fixed whatever problem they are working on.

My in-game fluff is that Healing Surges represent long-term damage, which takes weeks to heal (in other words only between adventures). To be honest I've waffled on whether to make Dailies per-adventure. Sometimes I just leave them as Dailies.

My solution has been to create a wound system. Basically, depending of the difference between the attack roll and your defence, you suffer a lasting injury.

It means that Hit Point are still as easy to recover than before, with the exception of wounds.

When you have a serious wound (that is, if the attack is 15 point higher than your defence score), you lose 12 more hit points that you can't recover until the wound has been healed. And it does not heal easily, nor quickly : once you have received first aid, you only recover one point per wound after each extended rest, provided you pass the DC (which vary from 10 to 25 depending of the wound) with either an endurance check or a heal check). Of course, magic may boost the healing process, but at a cost...
The wounds are localized (legs, torso, arms, head...) and may carry specific penalty until you have received first aid.

It makes combats far more deadly and fast (in term of HP loss, it works somewhat nearly as if every character had an automatic 3e power-attack feat that adjust to your attack rolls...no more grind.), it makes recovery harder and more realistic, including quick recovery : when you are able to recover all your hit points after one short rest, it just means that you have not been wounded, and just needed to recover your breath and balance.

I'm thinking about a scare system too : if the player is in a hurry, he may trade a quick recovery of a serious or critical wound against a lasting scar that will never disappear (unless some costly "regenerate" rituals is used).


for information :
attack roll < defence +5 => as usual in 4e. You have won an advantage against the enemy, who is somewhat unbalanced/fatigued and lose hit points according to your attack.

attack roll < defence +10 => minor wound. enemy suffer 4 more hit points loss. healing DC 10.

attack roll < defence +15 => moderate wound. enemy suffer 8 more hit points loss + additional penalty according to localization. healing DC 15.

attack roll < defence +20 => serious wound. enemy suffer 12 more hit points loss + harsher penalty. Healing DC 20.

attack roll < defence +20 AND the attack was a critical hit => critical wound. enemy suffer 16 more hit point loss and very, very harsh penalty, according to localization (example : head = unconscious until save). Healing DC 25.


Last but not least, I changed the death system. No more "death save". You die when you reach a negative threshold (CON + level), either because of the attack you suffered, or because a wound killed you (some cause HP loss until first aid is received or successful save is made). So fallen characters have less risk to die stupidly because the cleric was one action short to save them, but healing them AFTER the combat is a kind of challenge in itself.