B/X & 5E hybrid, built as an experiment

[HephaistosFnord]

So, I recently posted a thread in the main D&D forum, with a link to a 620-page tome with my hypercomplex 5E rebuild.

As an experiment, I decided to pare it back down to B/X principles, just to see what it would look like.

And I like it.

It's got:
-5 Classes - Fighter, Expert, Cleric, Druid, and Wizard, for that old-school feel
-4 Races - Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, again for that old-school feel
-10 Class Levels per class, with no feats or subclasses, although humans (and only humans) can Multiclass
-5E Proficiency scaling, so 5E-compatible monster stat blocks will work without modification
-Skill Points (5 levels, from +2 to +6, because 5E proficiency scaling), so each class can have some customization
-All class features tied to Skill Proficiencies, so that customization has actual meaning
-3 Circles of spells (first circle = first level, second circle = second level, third circle = third level + some toned-down 4th or 5th level spells), with flavorful spell mechanics
-A ton of flavorful potions and magic items

Here it is, weighing in at 100 pages and some change:

D20 Fantasy - B/X Style

An attempt to incorporate 5E style Skill proficiencies into B/X. This is a simplification of a much larger document which rebuilds all the 5E classes, subclasses, feats, and so on; this version merely provides the Basics necessary to play a Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Druid, or Cleric up to level 10.

docs.google.com

Since it's scaled to 5E, any A5E monsters and adventures suitable for a party of 1st- to 10th- level characters should work great, but I'd love to hear what happens when you try.

 

[Cadence]

I wonder how this compares to @Sacrosanct 's "Bugbears and Borderlands" (available on DriveThruRPG )

 

[HephaistosFnord]

I wonder how this compares to @Sacrosanct 's "Bugbears and Borderlands" (available on DriveThruRPG )

Give it a read and find out!

 

[Distracted DM]

I think Hephaistos' is more "built out" since it's kind of 5e compatible? Bugbears and Borderlands looks very rules-lite, kind of like Shadowdark. But probably lighter than SD.

 

[Shardstone]

What was the reason for taking out damage types partially? Bashing damage vs bludgeoning damage, for example.

 

[Shardstone]

So it is incredibly difficult for me to understand the Skills and Saving Throws in this game. Sometimes it feels like new skills are coming out of nowhere, and you'll list Saving Throw Skills and then come up with new Saving Throw Skills later in the document. Then when I look at the character sheet, each skill has its proficiency, dice, and then another + column?? I'm just very confused on how to actually use this Skill System.

Other critiques and praises:

• I don't understand why Alchemy is explained before Magic Items, since I'm guessing the rules to use Alchemy tie into magic item creation rules
• I don't get why Druids have such short spell preperation descriptions when it feels like they should have the same amount as Clerics
• I love your spells and the First/Second/Third level dynamic; it creates fantastic paradigms here and I love it a lot
• But I think the description for Wizard stuff is a lot of (no offense) useless information that doesn't really add a lot. I'd just give the Wizard some Metamagics instead of all this stuff with Elements, Polarity, etc, none of which actually amounts to anything other then fluff and categorization for the sake of categorization (which is fine worldbuilding but I can't engage with it in the game as presented)
• I appreciate the rules cyclopedia-take on adding new actions, like Charging Attack, though ironically you end up making this into a more combat focused game in doing so
• I like your area of effect stuff like blasts and how the active defense stuff operates with them; they are very applicable outside of combat, which is key

 

[HephaistosFnord]

Here it is, split into four 30ish page documents:

Handbook for Referees - (42 pages - exploration rules, encounter rules, Basic equipment, all potions, and all magic items)
D20 Fantasy (B/X) - Handbook for Referees

Handbook for Players - (39 pages - Full character creation rules, all classes, basic armor & weapons, and full exploration & encounter rules)
D20 Fantasy (B/X) - Handbook for Players

Cleric's Handbook - (9 pages - Cleric class & some Cleric spells; I clearly need to flesh this one out more)
D20 Fantasy (B/X) - Cleric's Handbook

Druid's Handbook - (26 pages - Druid class & all Druid spells, all potions, and all beasts suitable for animal companions or wild shapes)
D20 Fantasy (B/X) - Druid's Handbook

Wizard's Handbook - (32 pages - Wizard class & all Wizard spells)
D20 Fantasy (B/X) - Wizard's Handbook

 

[HephaistosFnord]

So it is incredibly difficult for me to understand the Skills and Saving Throws in this game. Sometimes it feels like new skills are coming out of nowhere, and you'll list Saving Throw Skills and then come up with new Saving Throw Skills later in the document. Then when I look at the character sheet, each skill has its proficiency, dice, and then another + column?? I'm just very confused on how to actually use this Skill System.

Other critiques and praises:

• I don't understand why Alchemy is explained before Magic Items, since I'm guessing the rules to use Alchemy tie into magic item creation rules
• I don't get why Druids have such short spell preperation descriptions when it feels like they should have the same amount as Clerics
• I love your spells and the First/Second/Third level dynamic; it creates fantastic paradigms here and I love it a lot
• But I think the description for Wizard stuff is a lot of (no offense) useless information that doesn't really add a lot. I'd just give the Wizard some Metamagics instead of all this stuff with Elements, Polarity, etc, none of which actually amounts to anything other then fluff and categorization for the sake of categorization (which is fine worldbuilding but I can't engage with it in the game as presented)
• I appreciate the rules cyclopedia-take on adding new actions, like Charging Attack, though ironically you end up making this into a more combat focused game in doing so
• I like your area of effect stuff like blasts and how the active defense stuff operates with them; they are very applicable outside of combat, which is key

Super appreciate this feedback! Lemme see if I can make it clear here, which will help me rewrite what I need to rewrite:

- Certain skills are used to make saving throws. The saving throws themselves are named, so that I don't have to keep repeating "unless you make an Acrobatics saving throw to halve the damage"... instead I can just say "unless you dodge".

The saving throw skills, and their associated saving throw names, are:

Attack Proficiency -> Parry
Acrobatics -> Dodge
Athletics -> Brace, Keep Bracing
Endurance - Resist, Shrug it Off, Cling to Life
Insight -> Snap Out of It
Investigation -> Disbelieve
Presence -> Deny

One inconsistency is that sometimes Insight saving throws are still called "Deny" instead of "Snap Out Of It".

Each of these saving throws has specific rules. For example:

• Dodge always uses your reaction. When you Dodge an area effect, you still take half damage if you can't leave the area before it "goes off".
• Parry always uses your reaction, and only works vs attack rolls.
• The Evade action lets you get your reaction back after you successfully dodge; the Guard action lets you get your reaction back after you successfully parry.
• Brace uses your reaction, but lets you Keep Bracing until your next turn unless something moves you or knocks you prone.
• Resist happens when an effect first hits you, and doesn't take any action.
• Shrug it Off happens at the start of your round, if you're taking ongoing damage or have some other debilitating effect.
• Cling to Life happens automatically whenever you start your turn at zero hit points.
• Snap Out Of It happens at the end of your round, when you have some mental effect (charm, fear, etc) that you can try and snap out of
• Disbelieve require your full action to realize something isn't right about an illusion effect
• Deny happens immediately whenever a mental effect (charm, fear, etc) first hits you.

 

[Shardstone]

Super appreciate this feedback! Lemme see if I can make it clear here, which will help me rewrite what I need to rewrite:

- Certain skills are used to make saving throws. The saving throws themselves are named, so that I don't have to keep repeating "unless you make an Acrobatics saving throw to halve the damage"... instead I can just say "unless you dodge".

The saving throw skills, and their associated saving throw names, are:

Attack Proficiency -> Parry
Acrobatics -> Dodge
Athletics -> Brace, Keep Bracing
Endurance - Resist, Shrug it Off, Cling to Life
Insight -> Snap Out of It
Investigation -> Disbelieve
Presence -> Deny

One inconsistency is that sometimes Insight saving throws are still called "Deny" instead of "Snap Out Of It".

Each of these saving throws has specific rules. For example:

• Dodge always uses your reaction. When you Dodge an area effect, you still take half damage if you can't leave the area before it "goes off".
• Parry always uses your reaction, and only works vs attack rolls.
• The Evade action lets you get your reaction back after you successfully dodge; the Guard action lets you get your reaction back after you successfully parry.
• Brace uses your reaction, but lets you Keep Bracing until your next turn unless something moves you or knocks you prone.
• Resist happens when an effect first hits you, and doesn't take any action.
• Shrug it Off happens at the start of your round, if you're taking ongoing damage or have some other debilitating effect.
• Cling to Life happens automatically whenever you start your turn at zero hit points.
• Snap Out Of It happens at the end of your round, when you have some mental effect (charm, fear, etc) that you can try and snap out of
• Disbelieve require your full action to realize something isn't right about an illusion effect
• Deny happens immediately whenever a mental effect (charm, fear, etc) first hits you.

It would help a lot to restructure the order of this information in the document. When I learn about the Saving Throw skills, I should learn their actual names as well, so that way I know what the keyterm is. The spread of information really throws me off and makes it hard to grok all this.

Its a neat system though, I'd like to see it in play.

 

[HephaistosFnord]

Okay yeah, thanks so much! I added the following section right after the list of Skill proficiencies:
The following saving throws are managed by your skills:

Skill Linked Saving Throws
Acrobatics - dodge an attack or explosion
Athletics - brace against being knocked down or moved against your will
Endurance - resist an effect as it happens, shrug off an effect after it’s started affecting you, or cling to life if you are dying.
Presence - deny an illusion that is controlling or limiting your actions
Investigation - disbelieve an illusion that is manipulating your senses
Insight - snap out of an illusion that is manipulating your beliefs or feelings

Does that feel like it'll help?