GreyLord
Legend
Some of this is reposted from what I put up at Wizards...but this is MORE FOCUSED (as there are threads out there already discussing those who have this book) on specific questions in regard to some of the changes...
Action Points on page 23...you get these after reaching a milestone...we all knew that...what was a surprise to me is that it is SPELLED OUT that a milestone is after TWO encounters. I don't know if it's been spelled out like that before.
Did I miss something? Or is this new...and how many are actually going to follow this strictly at two encounters to a milestone? I would do it when they reached some epic point, or some major achievement...but two encounters? What if they are small encounters with weaker creatures...do they still count?
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My next bunch of questions relate to Domains and schools...
The cleric has their advancement tables with experience (Every class has their separate tables with separate experience listed) but have two different domains they can choose from. The powers of these domains replace certain power selections you would get in the normal 4e core rules...but it seems that they are restrictive. If you choose a domain as a cleric...it implies that you must continue choosing powers from the domain you chose.
This raises the question of whether you can actually mix and match domain powers or not? Perhaps domains are peculiar to Warpriests? They have other powers they choose that are easily integrated into the normal 4e general cleric, but the essentials cleric, the warpriest besides being able to pick normal powers, has the extra abilities and powers from their domain. It is spelled out in their advancement table.
My questions on that of course are whether you can mix and match these or not. If you cannot, it opens a completely new can of worms. As there are only two domains offered here...when are they going to offer a NEW book with a bunch of other domains centered on what clerics (warpriest) can or cannot do.
Mages follow an interesting path as well, that of getting the schools. Unlike Clerics, they can choose any spells they want, but spells are assigned specific schools. The schools included in the book are Evocation, Illusion, and enchantment. Some of these spells (such as fireball) are classified, but it brings into question other spells. Fireball wasn't classified as evocation in the original core book, though there ARE spells labled as illusion and such. If it is labeled as an illusion, does that mean if I take the school of illusion, I also get the bonuses for illusion spells with those labeled as such in other magic/arcane books? What's more, this would seem to hurt the evocation school a little, as I do not believe as many spells have been labeled as evocation specifically...or maybe even as enchantment.
Schools add bonuses at different levels. Of interest, it calls Mages as specialized wizards (or wizards that specialize in specific schools of magic 192, but then states that Mages are widely known as generalists among wizards on page 199 under apprentice mage...I'd say they mean for Mage to mean the first definition, but it is odd that they throw in the second one that is exactly the opposite only a few pages later). This is spelled out under the Mage experience tables when and where you get this bonus. It would seem like Clerics, that there is a whole gambit for them to make another book that has the different schools like conjuration, divination, etc. listed and perhaps even expand upon this entire school concept.
What makes this more interesting is that there is only one paragon path for the mage, the Enigmatic Mage...BUT...it might as well be three different paragon paths. You have the Evocation Enigmatic mage which has different bonuses for it than the Illusionist Enigmatic Mage, which is different than the Enchantment Engimatic mage. Theoretically, you could have the Engimatic mage Paragon Path continued for all the schools...but have it completely done with different bonueses like the schools in the book are done...for each and every new school they create...in a new Class or Arcane book.
Do you think there are going to be more books, is this merely an opening of the door for something bigger, such as a new arcane book but instead called something like school of the mage...winds of domains...or something crazy like that? Or do you think it will be even less subclass specific and be like a new Complete Arcane book or Complete Divine, but this time concentrating on schools or Domains?
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The new Fighter build, the Knight REALLY seems like a sub-class...which raises more questions for me...as it seems much more powerful up front then the original fighter...
This is a whole new ballgame. First off, they start off with the Plate Armor proficiency. Was there another build in the Martial books that gave the fighter the Plate Armor proficiency right off? As far as I can see this doesn't take any extra feats or anything from them either.
Next off, they get something better then marking their foes, they get a Defender Aura. It doesn't specify how big or small this is, so I guess it could be nerfed to only being you...but the wording implies it includes everyone on the battlefield UNLESS they are actually marked by someone else. If they aren't...it gives the same effect as being marked overall, they get a penalty to attack unless it is you or someone else with this aura active. That's dang good, I'd say better than trying to mark a creature even. You start it with a minor action...and then it goes on forever until you stop it with a minor action.
Those are the big differences right there that made me think...hmm...it's like the fighter...but a LOT better. With that...why would anyone ever choose the generic fighter again? Unless the Knight really is a subclass and you are completely restricted to the experience table that shows his advancement and specific abilities he/she gains per level...that could open a whole new book of worms. Just saying...
So are we restricted in our advancments? Or is this merely another build and we are open to choose as we would want like the core fighter with the different powers?
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Finally in regard to the new feats...I'm thinking they stack, but I'm not certain.
Of course the feats (feats starting on page 309) ...which I imagine all fighters can also gain access too are useful as well. They have focusing on each type of weapon group called expertise...which gives you +1 at heroic, +2 at paragon...+3...well you get the picture...along with a special advantage to each weapon group...but also with a feat called Master of Arms (page 316) you get a similar bonus with every weapon...do these stack? In addition you have Weapon Focus...that advances in the exact same way...do these ALL STACK? This means theoretically you could have a +9 bonus at least from feats at the beginning of Epic?
--------------------------------
Just a few things that I had questions regarding what I read in my quick preview of the book. For those who have also seen it...any thoughts or answers...and those that don't but have thoughts...I welcome those too.
Action Points on page 23...you get these after reaching a milestone...we all knew that...what was a surprise to me is that it is SPELLED OUT that a milestone is after TWO encounters. I don't know if it's been spelled out like that before.
Did I miss something? Or is this new...and how many are actually going to follow this strictly at two encounters to a milestone? I would do it when they reached some epic point, or some major achievement...but two encounters? What if they are small encounters with weaker creatures...do they still count?
--------------------------------------------------------
My next bunch of questions relate to Domains and schools...
The cleric has their advancement tables with experience (Every class has their separate tables with separate experience listed) but have two different domains they can choose from. The powers of these domains replace certain power selections you would get in the normal 4e core rules...but it seems that they are restrictive. If you choose a domain as a cleric...it implies that you must continue choosing powers from the domain you chose.
This raises the question of whether you can actually mix and match domain powers or not? Perhaps domains are peculiar to Warpriests? They have other powers they choose that are easily integrated into the normal 4e general cleric, but the essentials cleric, the warpriest besides being able to pick normal powers, has the extra abilities and powers from their domain. It is spelled out in their advancement table.
My questions on that of course are whether you can mix and match these or not. If you cannot, it opens a completely new can of worms. As there are only two domains offered here...when are they going to offer a NEW book with a bunch of other domains centered on what clerics (warpriest) can or cannot do.
Mages follow an interesting path as well, that of getting the schools. Unlike Clerics, they can choose any spells they want, but spells are assigned specific schools. The schools included in the book are Evocation, Illusion, and enchantment. Some of these spells (such as fireball) are classified, but it brings into question other spells. Fireball wasn't classified as evocation in the original core book, though there ARE spells labled as illusion and such. If it is labeled as an illusion, does that mean if I take the school of illusion, I also get the bonuses for illusion spells with those labeled as such in other magic/arcane books? What's more, this would seem to hurt the evocation school a little, as I do not believe as many spells have been labeled as evocation specifically...or maybe even as enchantment.
Schools add bonuses at different levels. Of interest, it calls Mages as specialized wizards (or wizards that specialize in specific schools of magic 192, but then states that Mages are widely known as generalists among wizards on page 199 under apprentice mage...I'd say they mean for Mage to mean the first definition, but it is odd that they throw in the second one that is exactly the opposite only a few pages later). This is spelled out under the Mage experience tables when and where you get this bonus. It would seem like Clerics, that there is a whole gambit for them to make another book that has the different schools like conjuration, divination, etc. listed and perhaps even expand upon this entire school concept.
What makes this more interesting is that there is only one paragon path for the mage, the Enigmatic Mage...BUT...it might as well be three different paragon paths. You have the Evocation Enigmatic mage which has different bonuses for it than the Illusionist Enigmatic Mage, which is different than the Enchantment Engimatic mage. Theoretically, you could have the Engimatic mage Paragon Path continued for all the schools...but have it completely done with different bonueses like the schools in the book are done...for each and every new school they create...in a new Class or Arcane book.
Do you think there are going to be more books, is this merely an opening of the door for something bigger, such as a new arcane book but instead called something like school of the mage...winds of domains...or something crazy like that? Or do you think it will be even less subclass specific and be like a new Complete Arcane book or Complete Divine, but this time concentrating on schools or Domains?
------------------------------------
The new Fighter build, the Knight REALLY seems like a sub-class...which raises more questions for me...as it seems much more powerful up front then the original fighter...
This is a whole new ballgame. First off, they start off with the Plate Armor proficiency. Was there another build in the Martial books that gave the fighter the Plate Armor proficiency right off? As far as I can see this doesn't take any extra feats or anything from them either.
Next off, they get something better then marking their foes, they get a Defender Aura. It doesn't specify how big or small this is, so I guess it could be nerfed to only being you...but the wording implies it includes everyone on the battlefield UNLESS they are actually marked by someone else. If they aren't...it gives the same effect as being marked overall, they get a penalty to attack unless it is you or someone else with this aura active. That's dang good, I'd say better than trying to mark a creature even. You start it with a minor action...and then it goes on forever until you stop it with a minor action.
Those are the big differences right there that made me think...hmm...it's like the fighter...but a LOT better. With that...why would anyone ever choose the generic fighter again? Unless the Knight really is a subclass and you are completely restricted to the experience table that shows his advancement and specific abilities he/she gains per level...that could open a whole new book of worms. Just saying...
So are we restricted in our advancments? Or is this merely another build and we are open to choose as we would want like the core fighter with the different powers?
------------------------------------------------
Finally in regard to the new feats...I'm thinking they stack, but I'm not certain.
Of course the feats (feats starting on page 309) ...which I imagine all fighters can also gain access too are useful as well. They have focusing on each type of weapon group called expertise...which gives you +1 at heroic, +2 at paragon...+3...well you get the picture...along with a special advantage to each weapon group...but also with a feat called Master of Arms (page 316) you get a similar bonus with every weapon...do these stack? In addition you have Weapon Focus...that advances in the exact same way...do these ALL STACK? This means theoretically you could have a +9 bonus at least from feats at the beginning of Epic?
--------------------------------
Just a few things that I had questions regarding what I read in my quick preview of the book. For those who have also seen it...any thoughts or answers...and those that don't but have thoughts...I welcome those too.
