Magic Missile while blinded

malraux · Oct 3, 2010

Minifig said:
It says it's a ranged basic attack.

Nitpick: no it isn't.

Minifig · Oct 3, 2010

malraux said:
Nitpick: no it isn't.

It's ranged. Right?

We all agree it's 'ranged'.

It's an at will action against an enemy, I believe that falls under the definition of an 'attack'..

Therefore..

It's a ranged.. attack.

Mirtek · Oct 3, 2010

Minifig said:
Our DM told us that in order to do any basic attack; eg: any at will; you must have the ability to do that action.

Your DM is wrong, that is not how the 4e rules work

Minifig said:
You have to look at page 272 of your PH1.

If you have the PHB1 in front of you, take a look at page 281

Minifig said:
You just agreed that MM is a ranged attack.. so.. you have to choose what the ranged attack is going to hit..

Correct. However that doesn't requires you to be able to see your choice. Not being able to see your choice is simply -5 to hit which happens to be meaningless for MM

Minifig · Oct 3, 2010

Mirtek said:
Your DM is wrong, that is not how the 4e rules work

Immobilize would like to have a word with you as well then.

If you're immobilized you don't have the ability to do basic attacks..

Mirtek · Oct 3, 2010

Minifig said:
Immobilize would like to have a word with you as well then.

If you're immobilized you don't have the ability to do basic attacks..

You do, see page 277 PHB1

I'm A Banana · Oct 3, 2010

Notice what it says there?

You have to target something.

You have to choose what your targeting.

You have to see it.

That's not what it says, though.

Look, let's compare the actual text:

Magic Missile.

Blinded.

The key point is that blinded says "You can't see any target (your targets have total concealment)."

Concealment.

Magic Missile is not a ranged basic attack (though it can also be used that way). While blinded, I can't see my target, which means I take a -5 penalty on melee and ranged attack rolls against them (I CAN STILL TARGET THEM, with any sort of attack! Bursts and blasts don't even take that penalty!). Since Magic Missile isn't a ranged basic attack, and, even if it was, doesn't have an attack roll, there is nothing to apply the -5 penalty to, in any case.

By the RAW, I can still unerringly hit anything within 20 squares with a magic missile, even if I can't see them, because I don't need to be able to see things in order to hit them.

Look, I'm not really trying to win an argument here. I'm just telling you what the game actually says, and that it makes logical sense to me (if I can shoot a thing with an arrow, I should be able to shoot it with an MM). If you want to do it differently, I don't care.

Minifig · Oct 3, 2010

Even if it is an auto attack.. you have to see what you're attacking to attack it.

I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.

Mirtek · Oct 3, 2010

Minifig said:
Even if it is an auto attack.. you have to see what you're attacking to attack it.

You do not. The rules are clear. You can attack enemies you can't see at -5 with melee and ranged attacks and even without penalty with a close or area attack

malraux · Oct 3, 2010

Minifig said:
Even if it is an auto attack.. you have to see what you're attacking to attack it.

I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.

Because you don't. You have to be able to perceive your target. Smell, hear, etc. all give you the ability to perceive a target. Now, because the target has total concealment, it can on its turn attempt a stealth check to hide. If the target were to do so, then the blind attacker needs to use his perception check with appropriate penalties to detect the target.