Magic Missile while blinded

[Bold or Stupid]

Immobilize would like to have a word with you as well then.

If you're immobilized you don't have the ability to do basic attacks..

Prove this.

Immobilised states that you can not move except by teleport, or being pushed, pulled or slid.

Move - Any instance of movement, whether it is done willingly or unwillingly. Whenever a creature, an object or an effect leaves a square to enter another, it is moving.

So how does that stop any attack?

I think you have misunderstood the rules somewhat and are reading to large an effect into keywords.

 

[Minifig]

Immobilised states that you can not move except by teleport, or being pushed, pulled or slid.

Move - Any instance of movement, whether it is done willingly or unwillingly.

Attacking is a movement... do you swing your arms when you attack, and do you do it willingly?

Yes.

Therefore, it's a movement, you do it willingly and therefore it falls under MOVE.

 

[malraux]

Attacking is a movement... do you swing your arms when you attack, and do you do it willingly?

Yes.

Therefore, it's a movement, you do it willingly and therefore it falls under MOVE.

No. But hilarious.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Attacking is a movement... do you swing your arms when you attack, and do you do it willingly?

Yes.

Therefore, it's a movement, you do it willingly and therefore it falls under MOVE.

No it doesn't the term move as it stands for the GAME are in the post you quoted, notice how attacking, or taking something from your pocket are not mentioned. Therefore they are not part of the game term MOVE, so not stopped Immobilised.

 

[DracoSuave]

Even if it is an auto attack..

WRONG.

It is not an auto attack, an auto hit, an auto anything. It is a ranged attack power that has no attack roll and therefore does not hit anything. It has an effect that includes damage. That does not make it automatically do anything it does not do. On top of this, THIS IS NOT RELEVANT.

you have to see what you're attacking to attack it.

WRONG.

Go to your Player's Handbook, and open up to page 281.

You will find a sectioned called... wait for it...

ATTACKING WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE

"If you’re fighting a creature you can’t see—when a creature is invisible, you’re blinded, or you’re fighting in darkness you can’t see through—you have to target a square rather than the creature. You also have to figure out which square to attack. Here’s how it works."--It goes on into greater detail but you get the picture.

When you have a section of the rules explicitly devoted to attacking things you cannot see, and they tell you can, in fact, do so, then any argument that you cannot attack things you cannot see is automatically wrong.

This is one of the few cases of an automatic miss in the game.

Not to mention, you are aware of the location of any creature that is not hidden from you.

"If an invisible creature is not hidden from you, you can hear it or sense some other sign of its presence and therefore know what space it occupies, although you still can’t see it."

This is from the errata'd version, as well as from the PHB2. Page 224.

Immobilize would like to have a word with you as well then.

If you're immobilized you don't have the ability to do basic attacks..

WRONG.

IMMOBILIZED
You can’t move from your space, although you can teleport and can be forced to move by a pull, a push, or a slide.

Page 277, PHB. It says nothing about affecting attacks, ranged, basic, or otherwise.

I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.

IRONIC

 

[Minifig]

Man, WoTC needs to clear some of this terminology up..

 

[fba827]

Okay, I ran into this the other day while playing one of the Red Box encounters with my kids. The goblin hex hurler through a blinding curse (I can't remember the exact name of the power) at the party's wizard, which lasts until the goblin's next turn. The wizard, on his turn, threw a magic missile at the goblin hexer. Since MM is an "always hits" spell, I ruled that the hexer was hit, even though the wizard was blind while casting it. But is there a rule that addresses this situation?

Going back to the OP, the official rule directly out of the PHB (or Rules Compendium if you're using that, but it's the same thing).... Look up "Line of Sight" in the rules compendium it's p100 at the top about 'targeting' and again on p106 for a fuller description that says the same thing in more words. ((It's written the same way in the PHB1, just different pages and I don't have that book handy at the moment.))

But basically:
You do not need line of sight to use a power unless the power specifies a target that you can see (for instance, some powers say things like close burst 1, target all enemies you can see -- that would require line of sight. By contrast, some powers just say close burst 1, all enemies -- that does not require line of sight so it could be done even when blinded).

If magic missile says "target: one creature you can see" then you need line of sight (in addition to line of effect). But if magic missile says "Target: one creature" then you just need line of effect (and not line of sight).
Since you're not making an attack roll, the penalty for total concealment has no chance to come in to play with this attack.

Having said all that, if your DM decides to rule otherwise for the purposes of table agreement or plot/campaign/situational reasons, then, by all means, go with your DM's ruling in that situation.

 

[Minifig]

But basically:

If magic missile says "target: one creature you can see" then you need line of sight (in addition to line of effect). But if magic missile says "Target: one creature" then you just need line of effect (and not line of sight).
Since you're not making an attack roll, the penalty for total concealment has no chance to come in to play with this attack.

I still disagree with that. I still think you need a line of sight to have a line of effect.

The reason is because how can you effect something you can't see?

 

[Saagael]

The reason is because how can you effect something you can't see?

The same way I could close my eyes and punch the wall. I am effectively blinded, and I still hit the wall, affecting both my hand and the wall.

Just because you can't see something does not mean you cannot interact with it. I could close my eyes and swing a sword at someone, and still have a chance at connecting: I know where they are (sound, touch, smell, etc), and can therefore reasonably position my swing (the same way I can punch a wall) despite being blinded.

Magic is even less picky, since you have burst and blast attacks. I could be blinded, but if I throw a grenade into a room, that grenade doesn't give a damn whether I can see or not, it'll still blow the place to pieces. Now replace a grenade with a fireball spell.

Magic Missile cares EVEN LESS. It's like a targeting missile, that tracks down your target and hits them. You don't have to see to know what target you want to hit. I can close my eyes and still picture someone. (I use the term "hit" in this example for simplicity's sake, not to argue whether MM hits or not).

 

[DracoSuave]

I still disagree with that. I still think you need a line of sight to have a line of effect.

The reason is because how can you effect something you can't see?

Line of Effect means only an unbroken line where anything in that line can somehow be affected by what is at the point of origin.

Take a dark hallway. Beyond the limits of light, it is dark, and you cannot see. However if you shoot a beam of lightning down the hallway, it can reach into the darkness of the hallway. That is because line of effect determines what it can reach, and it doesn't have anything to do with line of sight.

Another example.

You have a guy hiding in a bush... obscuring terrain. You cannot see that enemy, but that doesn't stop you from guessing where that enemy can be, and launching magic in his direction. That bush doesn't stop your magic from working, it merely makes it harder. If they are not actively hiding from you, you can even determine their location within that bush automatically. So you know whereabouts to launch that pew pew magic. You make the attack roll, and the concealment makes it harder to hit them. It does not make it impossible however, you could still get lucky.

Some magics don't require attack rolls tho... a Healing Word ALWAYS works in its target. You don't have to know exactly where they are, you just know who you're targetting and whereabouts they probably are, and the power of magic does the rest for you. Magic Missile is the same... you just need to know what you're trying to damage with it, and whereabouts it is. It is not a precision tool... it is 'fire-and-forget' magic that does the rest for you.