How Hard Core is "Hard Core"? Searching for Meaning in Demographics

Bear with me if it takes a minute for this post to "get up to steam."

I bring up this question because I am curious how someone of my basic background and experience would be perceived by the gaming community, and/or game design community at large.

I also brought this topic up because I think the answers to the questions I'm about to pose can be affected by what game companies perceive from their "hard core fan base," vs. those of casual players.

So let me explain a little more.

By some circles, I'd be considered a "hard core" RPG player. I own between 15-20 books across 4 different game systems (I haven't really counted, so this is a guess), six or seven adventure modules, six sets of dice, PDFs of all of my current Pathfinder library of about 12 distinct books and modules.

For the last 6 months I have regularly GM'd a Pathfinder group. I have purchased minis and two small battlemats, I have also created some home-made enemy tokens for battles (because minis can get expensive). I have created my own campaign maps using computer software I purchased with my own hard earned cash. I have three sets of dungeon tiles for creating scenes, I own a GM screen, and I have a running log of campaign notes, old character sheets, maps in both hard copy and digital formats.

All in all, I consider myself fairly "invested" in the RPG hobby.

Yet in observing other players and GMs, in some ways I barely scratch the surface of being "hard core."

For example, one of my players has either played or GM'd no less than 25 different systems, from White Wolf Vampire to GURPS to Deadlands to Traveller and stuff I've never even heard of. I have only ever played or GM'd three systems: D&D BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia, D&D 3.5/Pathfinder, and Star Wars Saga--all based on the D&D/D20 "heritage."

None of my minis are painted, and are likely never to be painted. I just don't care enough to sit down and paint dwarf beards and flowing elf hair with craft paint sets. Compare this to any typical "weekend warrior" Warhammer player at an FLGS.

I've never played a CCG, and the very thought of Magic: The Gathering bores the hell out of me. I've played Heroclix, but know absolutely zero about comic book lore, and am inevitably a liability to my teammate(s) when I do play.

I don't play WoW. In fact, I haven't regularly played a computer or online RPG in close to four years.

I don't have any desire to "power game," or spend endless amounts of time sorting through splatbooks looking for "uber" character class combos. When I read the "Pun Pun" thread on the old Wizards forums, or the "Class Tier" system thread over on rpg.net, I am overwhelmed by the sense of "hardcoreness" that I am lacking as I watch people spout endless amounts of combos and classes from splatbooks I've never even heard of, proclaiming all the while that any player that "doesn't use this" is now playing a sub-optimal character. I'm completely uninterested in "gaming the game" of RPGs, I don't want to argue about rules minutiae.

I've never played in a game organized or run at an FLGS, because most of my experiences with the people at your average FLGS have ranged from "Nice, if socially inept" (which didn't bother me at all, since I've been there), to "Likely to remain single for the bulk of their adult existence." And like most things, it's the extreme end of the bell curve that makes things uncomfortable. I don't mind a good fan boy discussion on the merits of a game, or one system vs. another or whatever. It's the ones who dress in cloaks, prefer you call them "Bradburn the Bearded," and literally shout at you from across the room when you interpret a rule incorrectly that give our hobby a bad rep--and generally make FLGS play largely un-fun, at least from my perspective. That said, I did make an exception one time just over a year ago because I promised a friend I'd give 4e a chance (and he was running the one-shot)--and it basically confirmed everything I've never liked about FLGS game play.

I've never attended a Con, never played a "living" campaign.

I'm in my mid-30s, have a regular 8-5 job that makes me mostly middle-class; I don't have endless amounts of extra cash to spend on games, but I can easily and affordably spend $40-100 a quarter on various game-related material.

So here are my questions:

1. Am I hard core, or not?

2. How typical is my experience? Are there others that are "hard core" but only up to a point, like me? Or am I barely on the "fringe" of being hard core at all?

3. Am I a realistic demographic that RPG companies are currently targeting, and why or why not?

4. How does the "hard core" demographic affect what the RPG companies do to try and bring in new players and the products they produce?

5. If I want to continue to play and enjoy the hobby, what should a person in my position do to promote it, considering that I look on the "FLGS experience" with a high level of distaste?

6. If people like me are now more regularly the "mainstream" of RPG players (which may not even be a valid assumption), is it unrealistic to expect that there will be a sudden "Renaissance" of teen and twentysomething players, given RPGs' challenges as an entertainment medium? Can companies promote products that appeal to both the uninitiated, as well as the "hard core"?

Feel free to add your own questions, or discuss. I'm really curious to hear what you awesome folks have to say.

Why do you care?

Does it legitimize you? Do you think your complaints/comments are more valid if you are(or are not)?

I'm not trying to be rude here, but it's all about perceptions, and we, the general gaming populace, can't give you anything other than what we personally think.

No no, it's not about "legitimizing" anything, I don't really CARE from an "Oh look at me!" level if anyone else has similar experiences.

I'm curious because I'm wondering if I "fit" in a common ground that other gamers experience, and as such, what can we do to further the hobby that we love and enjoy?

Should I get over my anti-FLGS stigma, because that's the best way to keep the hobby fresh? I know the owner of Goodman Games posted something last year that seemed to indicate that the FLGS is still the lifeblood of the industry, which took me completely by surprise.

I'm asking because I feel that I have a strong commitment to the RPG hobby, but I'm not a full-out "hard core" gamer, and I wonder if those of us in that same position have any influence on the direction of the RPG hobby, or if game companies are looking to target more polar ends of the demographic--the ultra hard core, and the uninitiated.

Also, I care because I like to explore stuff like this. The sociality of gaming is a fascinating topic, because I think it connects to other ways we address human experience generally.

Please don't think this is trying to put me up on a pedestal, or anything, personally I'm totally unremarkable except as a very small sample data set for scientific observation in this case.

Good questions.

I don't know. I'd say I'm not a typical gamer myself, and don't seem to fit into the "standard" hardcore package myself. I've been around for several editions of D&D, however, and pecked at other systems.

I also have a massive bookshelf filled with game tomes, and am on this site or others running PBP games all the time. This is more regular than my RL game, in fact, which I tend to run. I write my own stuff.

I love the concepts of power-gaming, but enjoy the game in general across the board even without it. It's just plain fun.


1. Not. You are not casual either. I think we can say you're an enthusiast without being a fanatic.

2. There are loads of people like yourself.

3. No. You only buy once a quarter, while others buy frequently. However, you're a gamer so maybe they'll make something you want. If you want to be more their demographic, then start GMing. We're the ones who buy all the books.



4. Dunno. Go to a Convention and ask them.

5. Do what other people who can't stand spending time at FLGS's (like me) do: meet friends, introduce them to the game, and run it. If they're having fun, they'll buy the basic Core books of whatever system they like. Or join a meetup group that meets up and go to their group meetings.


6. I don't get that. The challenge is that kids today think MMORPGs are the same thing. They're not curious or inspired enough. You need to inspire whoever you're with. I was inspired by my first GM, and have tried to at least inspire others to give the game a shot.
Give a boardgame night a shot. If, after that, you can get a group of people together who are willing to give it a try, do so. Make sure they're people who will get along and have fun.

The biggest turnoff to RPGs is the gross people who play them. It's a social game, among other things. If you think the crowd that likes this stuff is gross, obnoxious, and detrimental to your growth as a human being, find another group or lower your standards. That is, if you care enough about the game to not ditch it completely.

The challenge, then, is to make a game appeal to non-gross people. That's why I tend to target my 20-something successful friends, many of whom are lovely and talented, and can't meet interesting real people outside of work. I have (on several occassions) dropped players who refuse to care for their hygiene: stinky feet, or that fecal-matter smell, bam, gone. One guy tried tickling a female player who was not interested, and bam: gone.

Instead of junk food, we serve vegetables at the table. There is beer, but I'd like there to be club soda and juices, and other healthy lifestyle alternative foods.

I'd like to make the area the game is set in nice, cozy, comfortable, and the sort of place you'd feel proud to spend 4-8 hours playing pretend in.

If you can do that: you'll save RPGs.

innerdude said:

So here are my questions:

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1. Am I hard core, or not?

I don't think the term is defined well enough to answer this question. I only use it to describe someone that's pretty darned extreme in their devotion. I play regularly, have dozens of games on my shelf that I've played over the years, and I'm a moderator here, but I don't think of myself as "hard core".

2. How typical is my experience?

I expect your experience is fairly typical.

3. Am I a realistic demographic that RPG companies are currently targeting, and why or why not?

It isn't like the companies make announcements as to who they are targeting, that we know the answer to this. You game regularly, but don't own huge amounts of product yet. You should be fairly easy to sell to. So, you should be part of their target, if they have an an ounce of sense.

4. How does the "hard core" demographic affect what the RPG companies do to try and bring in new players and the products they produce?

I'll reiterate - the inner plans of these companies are not available to us. We can only speculate. But, I don't think the hard core gamers are actually the main target market. Kind of by the colloquial definition, the "hard core" are a minority. Bad economic strategy, to make the minority your real base.

5. If I want to continue to play and enjoy the hobby, what should a person in my position do to promote it, considering that I look on the "FLGS experience" with a high level of distaste?

Play your game. Have fun. Buy new products when they inspire you. Talk with people if that inspires you.

6. If people like me are now more regularly the "mainstream" of RPG players (which may not even be a valid assumption), is it unrealistic to expect that there will be a sudden "Renaissance" of teen and twentysomething players, given RPGs' challenges as an entertainment medium? Can companies promote products that appeal to both the uninitiated, as well as the "hard core"?

The differences between the "hard core" and uninitiated are not relevant to the question. It is always unrealistic to expect a sudden upwelling of interest. Period. Those things cannot be planned, or all businesses would always be successes.

I think the important thing to answer is are you enjoying your gaming and happy with how it fits into your life? What is hardcore to you or someone not as into their RPGs is quite different than what others might consider who have shelves and shelves of books, attend any con that they can get to and play multiple systems each week. But when it comes down to it - it doesn't really matter what the label is. Play the game(s) and enjoy the fun! Labeling just helps build walls between gamers.

IronWolf said:

Labeling just helps build walls between gamers.

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I completely agree with this, and it's certainly not my intent to "rub people the wrong way," and I hope nothing I've said gives that implication.

In some ways this is more just an exploration of "inside my head," trying to piece the various elements together, some of them seeming dichotomies.

For example, why have various industry pundits (notably the head of Goodman Games whose name eludes me) stated that the FLGS is still the driving force of the RPG market, yet I've never been totally comfortable nor had any desire to participate in the FLGS scene?

Also, I really like fireinthedust's "You're an enthusiast without being a fanatic." That's probably a highly accurate assessment.

So who else out there is a non-fanatic enthusiast like I am?

I think there are just different brands of hard-core.
There are collectors, I work at a used bookstore so I see these a lot. They will buy absolutely any book from any system whether they intend to play it or not.
There are rules/builds folk. They know far more minutiae than I will ever know.
And then there are the people who are just dedicated to gaming. I think I fall into that category, it's probably where a lot of people here do. People who would rather be gaming than doing just about anything else. If the game doesn't stop until 8 in the morning and I work at 9, there is no way I'm leaving the table. When we moved across the country I got online and looked for people to game with in my area before I'd even bought furniture!
As to promoting the hobby, I think the best thing to do is run a game for new folk. I'm running a game for people in their late 20's early 30's who have never played because they were intimidated by learning the rules. Its really fun to watch someone get hooked!

I think that anyone interested enough to create posts here, or elsewhere on the 'net, is pretty much hardcore. Most of the people I game with or haveever gamed with don't not, nor are many of them aware of the existance of specific online forums.

ardoughter said:

I think that anyone interested enough to create posts here, or elsewhere on the 'net, is pretty much hardcore. Most of the people I game with or haveever gamed with don't not, nor are many of them aware of the existance of specific online forums.

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Good point. EN World is quite likely a self-selecting audience to the enthusiast side of things.