Converting Epic Level Creatures

Cleon

Legend
And on transubstantiation, no other modifications for the "mini-template"? How can the transformation be reversed?

I didn't think the "mini-template" needed anything more, really, although I did think about expanding the movement rate info a bit.

As for reversing the transubstantiation, I was thinking of adding "Transformed creatures can be returned to their former state by a wish or miracle spell" but didn't get round to it.

Maybe add polymorph any object to that list?
 

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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
"Transformed creatures can be returned to their former state by a polymorph any object, wish, or miracle spell" appeals to me.
 

Cleon

Legend
"Transformed creatures can be returned to their former state by a polymorph any object, wish, or miracle spell" appeals to me.

Come to think of it, we'd better include objects in the untransformation too. Furthermore, I fancy restricting the number/size of the restored objects since it is trying to undo near godlike magic.

Something like "Transformed creatures and objects can be returned to their former state by a polymorph any object, wish, or miracle spell, although only a single creature or object will be affected per spell, or only part of a structure (up to a 40 ft. cube) if the transformed object is particularly large."
 


Cleon

Legend
Seems fair.

Revising...

Elemental Transubstantiation (Su): Once per day an elemaster can transubstantiate all material objects and corporeal creatures in an area of up to 100 5-ft. squares that is within a range of 1000 ft. The affected area can be any shape. The elemaster can affect an area of any shape it wishes and exclude creatures within the affected area from the transubstantiation effect. All affected targets must succeed at a DC X Fort? or be transformed into elemental substances, the effects depend on the elemaster's intentions. Creatures that have the same elemental type as the elemaster are not affected by its transubstantiation; targets with no material substance are also unaffected, such as incorporeal creatures or objects of force such as an unseen servant.

If the elemaster wishes destruction, the target will instantly evaporate/crumble into gravel/burn to ashes/melt into puddles [delete as appropriate]. The transformed residue of creatures destroyed by elemental transubstantiation are not the remains of a living creature and can not be used for raise dead or resurrection spells. A miracle, true resurrection or wish spell is necessary to bring back to life a creature destroyed by this transformation.

Alternatively, the elemaster can transform material objects or creatures instead of destroying them, as described below. Transformed creatures and objects can be returned to their former state by a polymorph any object, wish, or miracle spell, although only a single creature or object will be affected per spell, or only part of a structure (up to a 40 ft. cube) if the transformed object is particularly large.

Transformed creatures become beings of elemental substance. Their type changes to elemental (if their intelligence is 2 or less) or outsider (if their intelligence is 3 or higher) and they gain the same subtype as the elemaster. They also gain a fly (perfect)/burrow/swim [delete as appropriate] speed equal to their fastest speed. Note that these transformed creatures are now susceptible to the elemasters' master elemental power (see below).

Transformed objects in the area can be used to form a structure of any shape the elemaster desires, the structure resembles a permanent solid fog surrounded by a permanent wind wall/a double strength wall of iron/a permanent solid fog surrounded by a permanent wall of fire/a double strength and double damage permanent wall of ice [delete as appropriate], and have Y hp per 5-ft. square. Treat this structure as a permanent magic item, it is not affected by dispel magic or break enchantment and is immune to effects of the elemaster's type. It takes a mage's disjunction spell or more powerful abjuration to destroy the structure (which is CL 84 and has a +Y on all its saves).
 


Shade

Monster Junkie
Elemental Transubstantiation looks fantastic! Updated.

Master Elemental (Su): An elemaster can turn or destroy elementals or outsiders of the opposite subtype (e.g. water for a fire elemaster) as a cleric turns undead. An elemaster can turn, rebuke, command, bolster or destroy elementals or outsiders of its own elemental subtype as a good cleric turns undead or an evil cleric rebukes undead (unlike mortal clerics, an Elemaster is able to both turn and rebuke its subjects). Master elemental does not affect other elemasters. An elemaster can use master elemental as many times as it wishes.

As I was updating the entry, I wondered: Does it need this ability since it already has this?

Domain Power (Su): 16/day, turn or destroy earth creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster air creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. Effective cleric level 2nd.

Cleon said:
What do you have against summoning a Primal or two? They are lower tier than the Elemaster. Is the problem the big jump in HD/size between the two?

The elemental swarm spell allows the summoning of 2d4 Large, 1d4 Huge and 1 Greater Elemental, so I fancied a similar range of sizes for the "super-summon". Something like 2d4 Elder elementals / 1d4 Advanced (48HD) Elder elementals or monoliths / 1 Primal elemental would seem to fit nicely.

Alternatively the top rung could be summoning another elemaster with the note like "an elemaster will only summon another elemaster under dire circumstances, since it becomes indebted to the other elemaster."

My issue is that I prefer to consider the primals outside the traditional hierarchy. Just like I wouldn't want the elemaster to be able to summon the archomentals (as deities cannot summon archfiends). Thinking of the primals as "ancient baatorians" or obyriths, they seem like they should be beyond the elemasters' control. That said, if freyar thinks otherwise, I'll bow to the majority. ;)
 

Cleon

Legend
Elemental Transubstantiation looks fantastic! Updated.

As I was updating the entry, I wondered: Does it need this ability since it already has this?

Domain Power (Su): 16/day, turn or destroy earth creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster air creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. Effective cleric level 2nd.

Dang it, I just didn't notice we'd given it that.

Still, I prefer a version that only works on elementals and outsiders and think its effective level should be a little higher than 2nd!

My issue is that I prefer to consider the primals outside the traditional hierarchy. Just like I wouldn't want the elemaster to be able to summon the archomentals (as deities cannot summon archfiends). Thinking of the primals as "ancient baatorians" or obyriths, they seem like they should be beyond the elemasters' control. That said, if freyar thinks otherwise, I'll bow to the majority. ;)

I'm not seeing anything in the SRD that makes Primal Elementals are lesser independent powers like archfiends, they just read like "uber-elementals" to me, as well as being "Ur-elementals". The Primals may be older and bigger, but they don't seem fundamentally different to regular elementals, their only game mechanical difference is they have Spell Resistance. (Indeed, if you want the Elemasters not to summon them, I'd rather justify it by having the Primals' SR 42 interfere with it.)

While I don't think the Elemasters should be able to summon entities like the Elemental Princes or a Genie Ruler, I think the Primal Elementals ought to fall within their remit and be summonable. Not so sure about the Archo's, since I can't recall their stats offhand.
 

Cleon

Legend
Hold on, I just realized the Archoelementals include the previously mentioned Elemental Princes of Evil.

I was thinking the Archos were just Gargantuan intermediates between the Greater Elementals and the Primal Elementals, without any individuality per se. I think of Ogremoch and friends as being "Elemental Princes" (or "Elemental Lords" like they're listed in the Creature Catalog).

In that case, I'd be OK with the Elemasters summoning Primal Elementals, 48 HD advanced Elder Elementals and standard Elder Elementals.

Guess I should have reread my copy of Dragon 352 some time since I first bought it. :blush:

Of course this means we're missing a proper non-individualistic Gargantuan elemental...
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Of course this means we're missing a proper non-individualistic Gargantuan elemental...

Nope, they exist, just aren't OGL. See "Elemental Monolith" in Complete Arcane.

freyar--care to weigh in on the Great Summoning Debate of '11?
 

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