Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

freyar said:

Seems like these are not really the same spell; the first paralyzes low HD critters, while the second physically restrains creatures of any HD. I'd give them completely different names and descriptions.

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Snare Soul and Cage Soul, perhaps?

freyar said:

But they do seem like spells rather than unique abilities. Anyway, want to work on the lesser one first?

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Sure!

I can live with those names, sure.

To start, should we borrow the bit about drawing a circle from the magic circle spells?

freyar said:

I can live with those names, sure.

To start, should we borrow the bit about drawing a circle from the magic circle spells?

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Which bit? There's four paragraphs about inward-focused circlesin the magic circle against evil spell description.

There does seem to be a a fair bit of overlap between the functionality of a magic circle and the Goatlings "Lesser Binding".

Come to think of it, Binding Circle could be a good name for it. We could then call the "Greater Binding" version Binding Cage or Greater Binding Circle.

Let's break down the original spell's effects:

A Binding Circle is a magical trap that lasts 1 day per CL.

1. It only traps the creature(s) specified when the spell is cast, either generic (e.g. "minotaurs") or a specific identity (how is this specified? Is it by name, e.g. "Redhorn the Minotaur pirate")
2. It can hold creatures up to a total HD equal to the CL.
3. The trap is activated whenever a target creature tries to leave the circle, or when its HD capacity is reached.
4. When activated, all eligible targets within the circle are paralyzed for the spell's duration.
5. Creatures with HD of at least half the CL are eligible to a saving throw, success of which dispels the spell and frees all its occupants.
6. The saving throw has a -4 penalty.
7. the circle only activates once, so creatures can enter and leave the circle after it is triggered without it affecting them.
8. If a creature paralyzed by the spell is carried out of the circle, the paralysis on them is broken. If all paralyzed targets are removed from the circle, the spell ends.
9. It can be affected by dispel magic.
10. It can be Empowered to increase its HD capacity.
11. A goatling can only sustain a single binding circle. It must be dispelled or its captives removed before the caster may create another.
12. It is not subject to summon coven.

So which of the above mechanics do we want to keep?

The spell, as written, paralyses its target. Do we want to chance it so it can paralyse Undead and other creatures who are normally immune to paralyzation? I suppose we could leave them to the more powerful "Greater Binding" which includes physical restraints.

For that matter, do we want it to be able to affect any creature - that'd include PCs and NPCs, after all!

I'm wondering whether we should change it so it only affects Undead and Extraplanar creatures, the same beings who the Goatlings can affect with their Discerp power.

I would be happy with having it affect Undead and extraplanar, though we have to do something about immunity to paralysis. Maybe it's not paralysis but something similar, like an "untyped" helplessness?

I would probably drop some of those 12 properties just to simplify it a bit. Like simplifying the saving throws or the carrying out of victims.

freyar said:

I would be happy with having it affect Undead and extraplanar, though we have to do something about immunity to paralysis. Maybe it's not paralysis but something similar, like an "untyped" helplessness?

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Yeah, that'd be OK. I'd just add a proviso that they "can take purely mental actions" like in the Paralyzed condition.

We don't need the effective Strength score of 0 bit do we?

freyar said:

I would probably drop some of those 12 properties just to simplify it a bit. Like simplifying the saving throws or the carrying out of victims.

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It seems fairer allowing everyone a saving throw, but maybe add a DC bonus if the goatling has twice the target's HD or more.

The carrying out of victims bit seems simple enough to simplify by having the duration last as long as a victim is within the circle, and note that allies can move the victim out of the circle ((or victims with mental-only transport powers can do so themselves).

Mmmm, maybe the way to do paralysis without the Paralyzed condition is just to say the victims have Str reduced to 0, which cannot be restored while they are in the circle. Wouldn't that work?

That's a good simplification for "carrying out victims," I think.

I'd probably drop the 1 circle/goatling limit

freyar said:

Mmmm, maybe the way to do paralysis without the Paralyzed condition is just to say the victims have Str reduced to 0, which cannot be restored while they are in the circle. Wouldn't that work?

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Creatures with Strength reduced to 0 fall prone according to RAW though. Don't paralyzed creatures normally stay standing?

Maybe having the victims Dexterity reduced to 0 instead would work, since that normally results in paralysis? That'd affect their Initiative and Reflex saves though.

Something like this seems easier:

"Victims affected by the spell become immobilized and helpless, but can still perform purely mental actions."

freyar said:

That's a good simplification for "carrying out victims," I think.

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Agreed. Once the original wording's cleaned up it becomes pretty simple.

freyar said:

I'd probably drop the 1 circle/goatling limit

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I'd rather keep the 1 circle per goatling limit.

It's not as if there aren't spells that only allow a single instance to exist at any given time. There are even examples in the SRD, like secret chest and contingency.

Your alternate wording is fine, and we may mention that even creatures immune to paralysis are affected.

I know there are precedents, I'm mostly just trying to simplify this spell a bit. If you want to keep the limit, no problem.

I guess we're keeping all 12 properties, in that case. Care to write a draft?

freyar said:

Your alternate wording is fine, and we may mention that even creatures immune to paralysis are affected.

I know there are precedents, I'm mostly just trying to simplify this spell a bit. If you want to keep the limit, no problem.

I guess we're keeping all 12 properties, in that case. Care to write a draft?

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Well I'll give it a start.

Binding Circle
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Goat 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: A circle with a radius up to 1 ft. per level
Duration: 1 day/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (see below)
Spell Resistance: No

This spell creates an invisible magical trap that can restrain an undead creature or a creature with the Extraplanar subtype. The caster must trace out a circle and mark it with runes that identifies what creature the binding circle will trap, either by type, subtype, species, or truename (e.g. "Undead", "Tanar'ri", "Lantern Archon", or "Rexpluff the Dust Mephit"). The circle and its runes are clearly visible to any creature using see invisibility, arcane sight or true seeing.

The binding circle is triggered when a creature that matches the rune identification attempts to exit the circle. A binding circle can trap multiple creatures with the same identification if they are all within the circle when it triggers, providing their total Hit Dice does not exceed the caster level of the spell. If the triggering creature(s) have more Hit Dice than the spell's caster level, the binding circle automatically collapses and is dispelled. Less powerful triggering creatures must succeed at a Will save or be bound by the spell. If the binding circle's caster level is more than twice the Hit Dice of the triggering creature, it increases the save DC by 2.

A victim bound by the spell is immobilized and helpless, but can still perform purely mental actions. Victims instantly regain mobility if they leave the circle, either by being carried out by allies or by using a purely mental transport power of their own, such as a still silent ethereal jaunt spell or the psionic dimension door psionic power. The binding circle will end if all the creatures it has trapped leave its circle. If they don't escape the circle, they remain immobilized until the spell is dispelled or its duration runs out.

A binding circle can only be triggered once. Other creatures of the specified target class can freely enter and exit the circle once it has been been triggered.

A spellcaster can have only one binding circle spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.

Cleon said:

Binding Circle
Conjuration (Summoning)

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I wasn't very sure about what descriptor to use but Conjuration (Summoning) seemed the best fit like a trap the soul spell. I couldn't use Enchantment (Compulsion) like a binding spell since under RAW that would have to be Mind-Affecting so won't work against Undead.