Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

[Cleon]

For discerp, I like your first option but with 30 ft rather than 60.

Sure, if you like 30 ft. I'm fine with it. It's not like the Range makes makes much difference - the target is restrained, after all.

OK, you've convinced me to go with Occultation. However, rather than listing a special "empowerment" section under Occultation, I'd allow the Spell Magnitude empowerment option to affect (1) area of effect and (2) SLAs.

I'd be fine allowing a Goatling to Empower its innate SLAs - indeed I was kind of expecting them to do. To my mind, the problem is more than our standard Empowerment caps at +5 CL, but a "Great Veil" empowerment creates a CL so high that a Demon Prince cannot penetrate it, as well as an Area of Effect so big that it covers the Goatlings' entire country.

 

[freyar]

How about the coven when summoned by Summon Coven can violate the usual CL caps? I think that's what it sounds like they do anyway.

 

[Cleon]

How about the coven when summoned by Summon Coven can violate the usual CL caps? I think that's what it sounds like they do anyway.

There are so many ways that could be horribly abused I'd rather limit it to specific examples, either in the summon coven or by detailing the available "coven empowerment" in specific goat magic spells.

Basically, have the coven spells only work for, say, weather control, binding demons, and The Great Veil, with maybe a mention that it is rumored they can also use it to create Epic Spells.

 

[freyar]

Limiting what Summon Coven can empower works for me; I just would rather write Occultation, etc, as normal spells without reference to the empowerment.

 

[Cleon]

Limiting what Summon Coven can empower works for me; I just would rather write Occultation, etc, as normal spells without reference to the empowerment.

Well we could add a note to the spell referring the reader to Summon Coven I suppose.

Anyhow, let's write up a "normal spell" version and see where that gets us.

 

[freyar]

I'd rather leave all the Summon Coven stuff to the Summon Coven description (like permanancy and SRD spells). Anyway, you've provided a good framework:

Occultation
Abjuration (Goat Magic)
Level: Goat 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: 10 ft. radius circle
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The warded area becomes difficult to perceive by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, scry, locate object or detect spells. It also prevents location by such magic items as crystal balls. If a divination is attempted against a creature or item within the area warded by this spell, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the spellcaster who cast occultation or the divination fails.

The spellcaster who cast occultation does not need to make caster level checks to use divination in the spell's area of effect. Any goatling who participates in a summon coven spell to enhance an occultation is considered a "caster", and the resulting spell will not ward against that goatling's divinations.


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Then I'd modify the Spell Magnitude empowerment option to affect SLAs and area of effect. What do you think?

 

[Cleon]

I'd rather leave all the Summon Coven stuff to the Summon Coven description (like permanancy and SRD spells). Anyway, you've provided a good framework:

Occultation
Abjuration (Goat Magic)
Level: Goat 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: 10 ft. radius circle
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The warded area becomes difficult to perceive by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, scry, locate object or detect spells. It also prevents location by such magic items as crystal balls. If a divination is attempted against a creature or item within the area warded by this spell, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the spellcaster who cast occultation or the divination fails.

The spellcaster who cast occultation does not need to make caster level checks to use divination in the spell's area of effect. Any goatling who participates in a summon coven spell to enhance an occultation is considered a "caster", and the resulting spell will not ward against that goatling's divinations.


****
Then I'd modify the Spell Magnitude empowerment option to affect SLAs and area of effect. What do you think?

So you don't want to allow a caster level bonus? I think that's important, since they're using it to imprison a Demon Prince.

Hold on, are you talking about having the Spell Magnitude option in the general-purpose Empowerment special ability to affect SLAs and area of effect?

I thought we already allowed the spell-empowerment options to affect SLAs, and I'm not in favour of adding a general purpose area-of-effect boosting option, since it's way too open to abuse. I'd rather allow an "increase area" empowerment option in the spell.

e.g.:

Empowerment (Su): ...
Attack/Damage: ... to its next attack/damage roll (including spells, spell-like abilities, and natural weapons).
Spell Magnitude: The next spell (or spell-like ability) the goatling casts ...

Occultation
Abjuration (Goat Magic)
Level: Goat 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: A circle with a radius up to 5 ft. per two levels
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The warded area becomes difficult to perceive by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, scry, locate object or detect spells. It also prevents location by such magic items as crystal balls. If a divination is attempted against a creature or item within the area warded by this spell, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the spellcaster who cast occultation or the divination fails.

The spellcaster who cast occultation does not need to make caster level checks to use divination in the spell's area of effect. Any goatling who participates in a summon coven spell to enhance an occultation is considered a "caster", and the resulting spell will not ward against that goatling's divinations.

Empowerment
If a goatling uses Spell Magnitude empowerment with an occultation spell, the empowerment's enhancement bonus to caster level applies to the spell's duration and area of effect.

 

[freyar]

Yes, add the red text, allowing the SLAs in empowerment.

I still don't like the idea of putting the interaction with Empowerment in the spell. And now that I notice it, I don't like having a spell just on the "Goat" spell list. If we want to make it truly impossible for non-goatlings to use, we should make it a unique Sp or Su ability rather than a spell.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, add the red text, allowing the SLAs in empowerment.

Updating the Goatling Working Draft.

I still don't like the idea of putting the interaction with Empowerment in the spell. And now that I notice it, I don't like having a spell just on the "Goat" spell list. If we want to make it truly impossible for non-goatlings to use, we should make it a unique Sp or Su ability rather than a spell.

Literally half of its Goat Magic powers are new abilties.

I see no reason a non-goatling couldn't use occultation, since it's basically an area-effect nondetection, but it is a spell (or SLA) specifically tailored to work with a goatling's supernatural abilities.

As for the Empowerment text, it just seems so much easier including it in the spell itself than sticking it somewhere else.

Why make the reader cross-reference every Goat Magic spell that has special Empowerment rules?

My thinking was we were going to modify the spell stats in the draft as we proceed - currently I'm thinking something like.

Occultation
Abjuration (Goat Magic)
Level: Bard 4, Cleric 4*, Goat 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: A circle with a radius up to 5 ft. per two levels
Duration: 13 hours plus 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)

*I'm still cogitating about whether I like it as a Cleric spell too, but I'm leaning towards not.

 

[freyar]

Can we leave off the "Goat Magic" descriptor? I just don't like introducing a new one when there seems no need. I'm fine either adding it to the cleric spell list or not. I guess I lean toward not also.

Rereading the original description of veil/occultation actually doesn't convince me that a single goatling's empowerment can increase the area of effect. How about we put that into summon coven and let normal empowerment work normally on Occultation? Then I think we can move on.