Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

Cleon · Jun 28, 2014

freyar said:
Blech. I vote we leave the "summon coven text" of Binding Cage until we've dealt with Summon Coven. Maybe it will just be a standard effect.

Looking at the Occultation writeup we did, I remembered we decided to tie the summon coven to the Goatling's empowerment ability.

Basically the coven "sacrifices" their Goat Magic spell-like abilities for the day and it creates a pool of empowerment points the summon coven casters can use to enhance a spell in excess of the normal empowerment limits.

freyar · Jul 6, 2014

Right! In that case, Spell Magnitude empowerment probably covers what we want to do, given that this is a "special goatling spell."

Cleon · Jul 6, 2014

freyar said:
Right! In that case, Spell Magnitude empowerment probably covers what we want to do, given that this is a "special goatling spell."

Good!

So it's sunfire whip next:

Sunfire Whip
Range: caster
Duration: 1d4+2 rounds
Effect: creates a powerful magical whip

The spell brings into being a huge strand of positive energy which can be used as a magical whip. It acts as if it were made of concentrated sunlight, instantly dispelling any darkness spell or spell-like effect. The whip can be used as a weapon whose potency varies depending on the target, as follows:

Target	Effect
Greater Denizens of Entropy*	+4 weapon to hit and damage
Enchanted Creatures**	+3 weapon to hit and damage
Undead Beings	+2 weapon to hit and damage
None of the above	+1 weapon to hit and damage
* especially demon-like creatures
** as defined in the Discerp spell description

The sunfire whip inflicts 3d6 pts of damage when it hits. It also causes double damage against creatures sensitive to sunlight. Strength and magical plusses are added to hit and damage rolls. A modified hit roll of 20 or better will entangle its target for 1d4 rounds during which damage is automatically inflicted (no save). An entangled victim cannot move, attack, or cast spells while entangled.

The whip can reach a target 30' away, however, it also demands as much room behind the caster in order to be properly wielded. The whip cannot be used if obstacles or people stand behind the caster. It is also very loud. No special skills or proficiency are needed to wield it. Mastery skills or weapon specializations do not apply. Empowerment cannot be used to alter the spell itself, but it can affect combat rolls as usual. It is not subject to a Summon Coven spell.

The whip can be spun overhead, acting as an area-of-effect weapon inflicting 3d6 pts of damage (save for half) to all within a 30' radius. Although damage bonuses do apply, no hit roll is needed, no entangle can take place, and the spell ends at the end of the round during which the whip is used in this manner.

freyar · Jul 23, 2014

I feel like the effect on the target might follow something like sunbeam, unless you really prefer the original mechanic. It just seems like that would fit the precedent a bit better. But as for the other basics, it seems like it's a "2 mode weapon": one is a magic whip, and the other is an area attack basically.

Cleon · Aug 3, 2014

freyar said:
I feel like the effect on the target might follow something like sunbeam, unless you really prefer the original mechanic. It just seems like that would fit the precedent a bit better. But as for the other basics, it seems like it's a "2 mode weapon": one is a magic whip, and the other is an area attack basically.

Do you mean you just want it to do extra damage to undead and light-sensitive targets and forget about the higher bonus against entropic/enchanted/undead targets?

I'd rather keep the improved bonus, although I'd be fine rationalizing the bonus a bit.

The original spell references the goatling's discerp ability, which we've translated as affecting Extraplanar creature and undead. That would seem to be a useful start. I thought about cribbing something off a bane weapon getting a +2 enhancement bonus and +2d6 damage against a particular type of foe, but that seems too complicated.

Better keep it relatively simpe. Something like:

A sunfire whip has a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls against most targets, this enhancement bonus increases to +2 against extraplanar creatures, +3 against undead and chaotic or evil outsiders, and +4 against chaotic evil outsiders such as demons.

The sunfire whip does 3d6? damage, plus its wielder's Strength modifier and the whip's enhancement bonus (see above). It does double damage to undead, chaotic or evil outsiders, and creatures to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural.

freyar · Aug 10, 2014

I can get behind

Cleon said:
A sunfire whip has a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls against most targets. This enhancement bonus increases to +2 against extraplanar creatures, +3 against undead and chaotic or evil outsiders, and +4 against chaotic evil outsiders such as demons.

The sunfire whip does 3d6? damage, plus its wielder's Strength modifier and the whip's enhancement bonus (see above). It does double damage to undead, chaotic or evil outsiders, and creatures to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural.

as a start, at least with the reddened change to remove the run-on sentence.

We also need to determine how the entanglement works and the area attack. Regarding the entanglement: did whips work like that in previous editions? I guess the question is whether we should swap the entanglement with the usual trip rules for a whip in 3.X.

Cleon · Aug 11, 2014

freyar said:
I can get behind as a start, at least with the reddened change to remove the run-on sentence.

Good, that give us something to get started.

freyar said:
We also need to determine how the entanglement works and the area attack. Regarding the entanglement: did whips work like that in previous editions?

Glancing through my books, the 1E Oriental Adventures handbook's version of the Whip can make Entangling Attacks.

Whips are a bit of a funny case in AD&D.

In the 1E Monster Manual they were a fairly common sidearm among humanoid enforcers (hobgoblin slavers, orc sergeants, et cetera) but there were no rules for them in the 1E Player's Handbook. There were also monsters, such as the Type VI demon (balor) that had whips as a special attack, but each monster tended to have its own version of a "whip".

The 2E Player's Handbook at least has a whip listed, though it lacks the Entangling Attack ability of the Oriental Adventures version.

freyar said:
I guess the question is whether we should swap the entanglement with the usual trip rules for a whip in 3.X.

I'd be inclined to just give it the Entanglement attack. Mechanically we might treat that like a net with a rope on it, since the caster is holding on to the other end of the whip.

Can we repurpose some of the text from the Veiled Maidens for that? Their veils have some similar traits.

freyar · Aug 14, 2014

Hmm, given that the original spell entanglement effect could be argued to be simply the normal property of a whip, I'd be inclined to leave out the entanglement and say that it functions like a whip from the SRD with the listed enhancement bonuses (for the melee attack mode). That way we don't have to introduce a new, exception-based mechanic, and we can just reference the core rules. It feels simpler.

Cleon · Aug 14, 2014

freyar said:
Hmm, given that the original spell entanglement effect could be argued to be simply the normal property of a whip, I'd be inclined to leave out the entanglement and say that it functions like a whip from the SRD with the listed enhancement bonuses (for the melee attack mode). That way we don't have to introduce a new, exception-based mechanic, and we can just reference the core rules. It feels simpler.

The problem with that is entangling the target while inflicting autodamage each round is the sunfire whip's distinguishing melee schtick.

If we had it act as an SRD whip it's be making trip attacks instead, which is quite a change.

freyar · Aug 19, 2014

Well, the area attack is also an interesting feature. As is the "wielder must have room in front and back," although I'm inclined to drop that part. Really, it's hard to see a whip being able to maintain its hold unless it's sticky somehow, but I'd be willing to entertain something like what the Veiled Maidens has, I guess.