billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
This is also a model that's highly criticized from the consumer advocate perspective when it comes to software. I'm not sure that's an ideal model to adopt for pen and paper RPGs.
Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D
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This is also a model that's highly criticized from the consumer advocate perspective when it comes to software. I'm not sure that's an ideal model to adopt for pen and paper RPGs.
Raven Crowking
First Post
Removed
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prosfilaes
Adventurer
What do you mean there's no going back? There's always going back; there's people who enjoy riding horses and listening to oldies music. As long as there is enough consumers that enjoy the old, nothing's going to force them to go to the new.
Not only that, there's been tons of "forerunners" that have really been Edsels. Only time separates out the good ideas from the bad, and right now it's looking like 4E, despite all the advantages of being D&D, has lost significant amounts of market share that 3.5 had.
IronWolf
blank
DDI is one way of doing things, but I would say that Pathfinder has a good chunk of things already with their offering.
Pathfinder has an expandable rules system.
There is certainly digital support, though in a differing style than DDI, but still digital support. Pathfinder has two SRDs available with a good amount of the rules publicly available, the books are nearly all available in PDF format and I have my choice of a couple of character generator options. I think Pathfinder does lack an encounter generator offering at this point, but I may just not be aware of some option.
Errata is updated in the PDF versions of Pathfinder products. Beyond that I would prefer not to have the churn of continual rule updates. I understand that some people want more frequent updates and that is totally cool - it just isn't something I am looking for. I prefer longer term stability than a fluctuating ruleset - purely personal preference and why I am glad there is a choice for people.
Dannager
First Post
Yes.
Then you'll give me the whole thing. We've seen bits and pieces elsewhere. 4e is the first system to take those bits and pieces and turn them into a coherent model for the closest thing to a living tabletop game system we've seen yet.
The expandability of the rules system has nothing to do with a license allowing its use. The ability to easily extend the game system is a property reflecting the modularity of the system.
Yes, you could expand the d20 system, because you were allowed to. That doesn't make it more expandable than 4e. 4e is still the king in that regard.
Sort of.
And that's why that particular model was dropped.
That's another piece of the model - the primacy of official content. This particular part of the model may eventually phase out if the digital tools side of the model matures enough to effectively handle third party content, but I think that's realyl a long ways off.
Dannager
First Post
Sure, there are people who will criticize anything. Those voices will die down.
Ideal or not, it's how things are going to be.
Dannager
First Post
Absolutely. Individuals can always give up on following the current of the hobby. The hobby itself, however, is not going back.
That's absolutely correct. But they will not find themselves supporting the hobby's forerunners.
And that's fine. I'm confident that time will show this to be accurate.
prosfilaes
Adventurer
What is the hobby but the individuals who make it up? There are new OSR games being published, so obviously the whole body of the hobby isn't going in that direction. It seems a classic form of manipulation to declare that the course is inevitably in the course the speaker would like, thus people should abandon whatever is good for them to catch the inevitable course.
Dannager
First Post
Nothing.
Obviously.
It would be, if it were for the sake of manipulation. Consider, however, that such manipulation is so classically successful because it is often indistinguishable from a legitimate analysis.
Imaro
Legend
1. Highly expandable rules system that has, upon being expanded in a major way, through PHB 3 and Essentials caused a fracture in their customer base... Meanwhile the rule expansions in the APG and UM books for Pathfinder have caused no such fracturing.
2. Heavy digital support... Well you did say heavy and not good. In all honesty with my HeroLab CB (Which I actually own), CombatManager, the searchable PFSRD and/or PDF's with copy and paste... Not seeing WotC as having such a big lead in this department. I mean when was the last time the
3. Treating a system like software that can be updated... Yeah, again this is not universally accepted as a positive by many of the fans of 4e, especially since with it's exception based design there are just too many areas (mostly powers) where changes can be made to be kept up with. At a certain point people want some stability, even if it's not perfect.
You see ideas in and of themselves aren't what leads the way into the future, it's implementation that does... Hey but then again, just like with 3.5, Paizo might step in and actually make the DDI model work, then I agree it probably would be the way of the future.
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