The Humble Staff ??

Istar · Nov 26, 2011

Fighter type class's can weild a variety of weapons, including the humbe Staff (quaterstaff?), and of course they can be magical.

Can a fighter class use a Staff, that is under the magic item class "Staff (Implement) ???

And in doing so make benefit from on of these staff's properties.

One example being "'Staff of the Travler" that says whenever you shift you instead teleport the number of squares.

An Avandrs Sandal wearing Raven Knight, with movement 10, who can shift half movement speed at-will, can then teleport 5 at-will if wielding the staff.

Kind of useful when slowed or immobolised or grabbed.

Shadus · Nov 26, 2011

You can't use a staff as an implement unless you have the ability to use staff implements. (That sounds redundant...)

Fighters are proficient with staffs as weapons, not implements.

Dannyalcatraz · Nov 26, 2011

IOW, if you want your fighter to wield staves as implements, you'll need to burn a feat.

Akaiku · Nov 26, 2011

You can wield a staff in 2 hands as a weapon. A magical item property requires wielding. Weapliments are fancy as you can wield them either way and if it doesn't state "When you use this for a weapon power" or "Implement power" it works either way.

Or is there some specific rule someone found contrary to that?

DracoSuave · Nov 26, 2011

He's not asking if he can use a staff as an implement.

He's asking if he can use a magic staff from the list of magic staves as a weapon... and what benefits he gets.

The answer is complex.

You get the critical and enhancement bonus properties as those have nothing to do with weapon or implement use.

However, magic implements do have a special rule in place:

"However, you must be a member of a class that can use a staff as an implement to apply the enhancement bonus of a staff to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of any of your powers from that class that have the implement keyword and to use a staff ’s properties and powers. If your class can’t normally use staffs as implements, or if you’re not using an implement power, a staff is simply a magic quarterstaff."

Using it as an implement is not relevent to you. Using the properties and powers IS. You need implement proficiency in any implement magic item in order to use its tricks. Once you DO have that proficiency, you're free to use its properties and powers as you please.

Istar · Nov 27, 2011

DracoSuave said:
He's not asking if he can use a staff as an implement.

He's asking if he can use a magic staff from the list of magic staves as a weapon... and what benefits he gets.

The answer is complex.

You get the critical and enhancement bonus properties as those have nothing to do with weapon or implement use.

However, magic implements do have a special rule in place:

"However, you must be a member of a class that can use a staff as an implement to apply the enhancement bonus of a staff to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of any of your powers from that class that have the implement keyword and to use a staff ’s properties and powers. If your class can’t normally use staffs as implements, or if you’re not using an implement power, a staff is simply a magic quarterstaff."

Using it as an implement is not relevent to you. Using the properties and powers IS. You need implement proficiency in any implement magic item in order to use its tricks. Once you DO have that proficiency, you're free to use its properties and powers as you please.

I assume the part in quotes is from a manual.

So as long as you MC in a class that lets you use implement, you can have a try at any implement whatsoever, and browse through the properties.

Doesnt work for my Warden MC into fighter but maybe I can find something for my Rogue who has MC into Avenger (for a couple of primo powers I might add)

Istar · Nov 27, 2011

Dannyalcatraz said:
IOW, if you want your fighter to wield staves as implements, you'll need to burn a feat.

Okay can I get to grips with this concept.
MC into a class that uses lets you wield implements, is the feat.

But sounds kind of weird if you MC into Cleric for example and can weild "Implements" !!!
Of course you might pick up a Symbol.

But this then gives you access to all and sundry of anything classed as implements, such as Staff's and Wands and all sorts of stuff ???

is this how it works ?

mneme · Nov 27, 2011

[MENTION=22315]ishtar[/MENTION], no, it's not. ""However, you must be a member of a class that can use a staff as an implement to...and to use a staff ’s properties and powers."

The rules for implement use have changed (simplified, in fact) since 4e was printed (Essnetials vastly improved them by removing the need to learn each implement for each different class). But you're still proficient with specific implements. Monks and assassins can use all weapons they're proficient with as implements, so anyone who multiclasses into monk or assassin can use a magic staff. And, of course, there are a number of classes that can use staves as implements -- off the top of my head, wizards, invokers, druids and sorcerers. Plus, if you multiclass into (or start in) and arcane class, you can use Arcane Implement Proficiency to gain staff.

But no, being proficient with, say, Holy Symbol doesn't let you use Staff or rod as an implement.

Lord Ernie · Nov 27, 2011

mneme said:
Monks and assassins can use all weapons they're proficient with as implements, so anyone who multiclasses into monk or assassin can use a magic staff.

While you're mostly right, this is no longer true. The monk and assassin feats have been errata'd (or rather, clarified - getting that feature was always implied, but not stated): you only gain proficiency with ki symbols by multiclassing. To use their special 'weapon as implement' class feature, you need to be a hybrid, at the least.

DracoSuave · Nov 27, 2011

Lord Ernie said:
While you're mostly right, this is no longer true. The monk and assassin feats have been errata'd (or rather, clarified - getting that feature was always implied, but not stated): you only gain proficiency with ki symbols by multiclassing. To use their special 'weapon as implement' class feature, you need to be a hybrid, at the least.

Not really important to the primary point tho; unless it's a class that gives staffs as an implement, you can't use the properties or powers of implement staffs, which is all the OP was asking about.