The Humble Staff ??

[Lord Ernie]

Not really important to the primary point tho; unless it's a class that gives staffs as an implement, you can't use the properties or powers of implement staffs, which is all the OP was asking about.

True, but it is important, in the sense that mneme's post said that by MC'ing into Assassin or Monk, you gain implement proficiency with all weapons you are proficient with, which is no longer true.

So MC'ing into Assassin or Monk does nothing for your staff implement proficiency, even if you're proficient with them as a weapon, which is what the OP was asking about.

 

[SkidAce]

Let me see if I followed this conversation correctly....I have a quarterstaff fighter, and as DM I want to give him a magical staff that has some martial encounter power built into it...and he won't be able to use it?

/boogle


What if the magical staff is not an implement, but a weapon with a power...is it okay then?

 

[SkidAce]

Staff of the Discerning Watcher is only usable by implement users?

A staff of striking is only usable by implement users?

 

[SkidAce]

Ahh....a Lullaby Staff is a weapon (with a daily power) and it is not an implement, so I guess it is possible, just not many weapons with "powers".

...and not very intuitive to me but hey....

 

[Neonchameleon]

Let me see if I followed this conversation correctly....I have a quarterstaff fighter, and as DM I want to give him a magical staff that has some martial encounter power built into it...and he won't be able to use it?

/boogle


What if the magical staff is not an implement, but a weapon with a power...is it okay then?

Implements are for spells. You can't use a Staff of the Magi at its full abilities just because you are very good at clobbering people over the head with a staff. You need some training in more esoteric properties of a staff. On the other hand a staff specifically designed for hitting people over the head is just fine as it's using weapon enhancements.

 

[mneme]

Thanks for the correction, Ernie -- yeah, I'd forgotten that the monk multiclasses no longer let you use weapons as implements.

There's no such thing as a "Lullabye staff". There's a "Lullabye Quarterstaff", which is a magical weapon just like any other weapon, and is in the staff group. But when a magic item is referred to as a "staff", that means it's the implement, not the weapon (with specific rules for how the implement can be used as a weapon, as above).

The way to express an enchantment for a quarterstaff (or really any weapon in the staff group) would be:

Foo weapon
Weapon: staff
Enchancement bonus: Attack bonus and damage bonus
Critical: 1d6 per plus
(and so on).

Whereas the way to express a magic staff that is an implement first and a weapon second is:

Bar staff
Implement: Staff
Enchancement bonus: Attack bonus and damage bonus
Critical: 1d6 per plus
(and so on).

Magical implements cannot normally be used as weapons (but there are special rules for staffs).

Magical weapons -can- be used as implements if you are able to use them as implements; a lullabye quarterstaff can be used as a staff implement, as well as a frost dagger being usable as a dagger implement.