The Escapist on D&D Past, Present, and Future

darjr said:

That's it for me, except I get this feeling from the last article that it isn't Mearls searching so much as stating that he's made some conclusions. That he has conclusions about what happened and what is going on and an idea about what to do about it.


Is it just me?

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Nope. Not just you. It's like the old saw for trial attorneys about never asking a question for which you don't know the answer, interviews (articles, blogs, etc.) done by persons in a corporation are a form of marketing and rarely are they done without some sense of what has already been decided regarding the direction the corporation is heading. WotC seems to be feeling out the best way to present what they have already determined regarding how they plan to proceed. We'll know more after the D&D XP later in January, IMO.

Mearls needs to know what a true Storytelling Game is all about

From the recent Escapist Magazine article about the future of RPGs:

"I have a theory about RPGs," Mearls said. "When 2nd edition really got focused on story [in 1989], we had what I call the first era of RPG decadence and it was based on story. The idea that the DM is going to tell you a story, and you go from point A to point B to point C. The narrative is linear and [the DM is a] storyteller going to tell you a static story, and you would just get to roll dice occasionally."

Now, I counter with a quote from the World of Darkness corebook:

"Storytelling games involve at least two, although preferably four or more players. Everybody involved in the game participates in telling a group story — the players create and act out the roles of their characters, and the Storyteller creates and reveals the plot, introducing allies and antagonists with which the players’ characters interact. The players’ choices throughout the course of the Storytelling experience alter the plot. The Storyteller’s job isn’t to defend his story from any attempt to change it, but to help create the story as events unfold, reacting to the players’ choices and weaving them into a greater whole, introducing secondary characters and exotic settings." (The World of Darkness, page 22)

Now my soapbox:


This so called "Age of Decadence" was an age where in order to compete with the games coming out of the White Wolf Games Studio, TSR had to put more focus on the story, because dungeons weren't enough anymore. It was a Renaissance in games not a step backwards as he makes it sound like it was. Only the worst of Storytellers would run linear stories. Everyone became part of the story and the DM was less of a god and more of facilitator. And just because you put down the dice didn't make it any less of an enjoyable experience.

I ran a mini campaign of Prince Valiant, the Storytelling Game last summer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Valiant_(role-playing_game)

Be sure to read this review (with particular attention toward "SUBSTANCE III – GAME MASTERING, I MEAN, STORYTELLING" -

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9189.phtml

Once you get beyond the basic game, the Advanced version is meant to be shared storytelling. This review is a bit one-sided against that type of play but the rest of the review is very complete.

Achan hiArusa said:

Only the worst of Storytellers would run linear stories. Everyone became part of the story and the DM was less of a god and more of facilitator. And just because you put down the dice didn't make it any less of an enjoyable experience.

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Agreed. I see my campaign as a shared work of coauthored fiction. I set the stage and the players improvise within the scene I have set. Mind you, the extras (NPCs) will often try to steal the scene.

When designing an adventure, it is easy to begin with "go from point A to point B to point C" but with the knowledge that players will often go from A to G to Z and back to B, otherwise you end up with the infamous "Oh no! It's that unfinished portion of the dungeon we feel mysteriously compelled to avoid!".

I will point out that Dragonlance, very much what Mearls describes, predates Vampire by the better part of a decade. 2e continued that trend, and was developed in the shadow of the first really successful franchise that TSR had in years, aside from AD&D itself. 'Hey, this worked, let us do more of it.'

The Auld Grump

Cergorach said:

Sure the market is way bigger for small publishers, but a lot of small publishers are a short step away from vanity publications that are very far from a 'viable commercial business' model.

I would say that ENWorld is one of the better performing small publishers, but would you characterize it as a viable commercial business? Would you advice investors to invest in a small publisher as a viable commercial business?

I would rate a viable commercial business as a business where you get a return on a product range within a reasonable period of time at a decent hourly wage.

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Without wanting to share private finances with you - yes. We do very well.

Without knowing the details of other small companies' financial details - I'd say yes, there are a couple dozen doing similarly well, and a small handful doing better.

Which is not much different to 20 years ago, except that now there's another 500 "making some beer money" enterprises in addition to them, who would not have had a viable outlet 20 years ago.

TheAuldGrump said:

I will point out that Dragonlance, very much what Mearls describes, predates Vampire by the better part of a decade. 2e continued that trend, and was developed in the shadow of the first really successful franchise that TSR had in years, aside from AD&D itself. 'Hey, this worked, let us do more of it.'

The Auld Grump

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Yep. Between the Dragonlance modules, the constantly-advancing FR timeline (with novel events being reflected in later products), the Grand Conjuction of Ravenloft and even the advancing timeliens of Greyhawk and Dark Sun, TSR had a LOT of the "follow the storyline" syndrome.

There was a point in late 2E where the advetures were very much on railroads (The Ravenloft adventures were some pf the worst offenders, Some of the FR adventures as well). Folks around me had abandoned D&D as players seemed to feel that it was "hack'n'slash" play and the "real roleplayers" were moving away from the clunky system for things like GURPS and WoD, whose systems seemed more robust and allowed for deeper immersion into the fantasy realm.

I remember in the games of Vampire I was drifting to, because of the game's structure, there wasn't even a need for modules; many times the characters own personal struggles made the idea of some grand quest seem ludricious and unfulfilling as such prepackaged fare did not account for the group dynamic. It felt "false" because the activities couldn't be tailored by designers 3,000 miles away from the groups playing their games.

In the end, TSR did had a problem with 2E, but it wasn't that it was asking people to tell stories. It was that the system was starting to show it age and wasn't really catering to its actual audience.

Lum The Mad said:

I think this is crucial!
Baldur's Gate [1998] was my gateway drug. (Along with Planescape: Torment [1999] and Icewind Dale [2000])

And I firmly believe that without these three games the 3e wouldn't have been such a success.

D&D needs a new video game series. Preferebly one that gets a 90%+ rating from reviewers.

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Unlikely to happen.
WotC won't invest enough money for AAA games (tens of millions, in some cases more than 100 million) and doesn't really have the experience to do it themselves.

There also aren't really any big RPG developers left who don't have their own setting or are already under contract. And the game studios/publishers themselves don't have much interest in D&D because the last D&D game tanked with the fanbase practically got halved with 4E. Maybe if WotC practically gives away the license for free if the publisher agrees to make at least one game with X budget. But they will hardly agree to that.

But maybe a miracle will happen and WotC can get CD Projekt or Obsidian to do a D&D game or can find enough old Black Isle/Bioware employees to start a new studio. But so far the only notable D&D game in the pipeline is that Neverwinter MMO. And it is Cryptic so it won't be AAA. Even a B-game would be a surprise from them. And I don't think that there will be any other D&D game any time soon.

(I am also a bit perplexed at the decision to make the Neverwinter game an MMO. Sounds like something a bean counter would decide after reading a news story about WoW. D&D has a very high reputation for single player games with added multiplayer, but non as MMOs. Also the MMO market is very unforgiving and imo oversated. A good single player 4E game with added toolbox and DDI connectivity would have served the D&D brand better)

I think a better strategy for a gateway video game would be something akin to that Duel of the Planeswalkers game. A Virtual Table built around a simplified version of D&D on a platform Xbox Live or another equivalent.