Write this game for adults

GSHamster · May 1, 2012

bloodtide said:
This is a great example. When I was a kid we did not have such ''lowly grade level'' books to read. What did I read as a kid? Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit. Edgar Rice Burrows. Issac Asimov. And all the books we would now call 'classics' like the works of Mark Twain, 1984 or Uncle Tom's Cabin. I had read most of them before I was even a teen. Sure, I read Bunnica(the vampire bunny that only eats vegetables) when I was like six. But well before the time I was ten, I was reading 'adult' fiction.

My generation did not have Harry Potter, Twilight or any of the other current popular fiction that ''talks down to kids on their level''. I was reading Gulliver's Travels as a kid, a book that I'll bet that few under the age of twenty have read(unless 'forced' to in school).

Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Tom Swift, Enid Blyton's Famous Five.

Even in the field of fantasy, there were works like Lloyd Alexanders Chronicles of Prydain, which were definitely written to a lower grade level.

Our generation was just as bad as the current generation. Actually, if anything I would say that the main difference is that adults of previous generations did not use to read children's books, and thus you never had the mega-successes of Harry Potter or Twilight or Hunger Games. Children's books stayed in with children, and did not migrate to society at large.

Stormonu · May 1, 2012

If the game is written at the level of Moldvay basic, that's all I care for. And I don't want a purely technical manual - which was the feeling I got reading the 4E PHB; even the Pathfinder core book tends to be so dry I can't sit down to read it for pleasure.

Looking back over all the systems I've encountered, the most pleasurable to read and look at has actually been the 1st edition Legend of the Five Rings game. I felt it very immersive and evocative, and the later versions just didn't carry the same interesting feel.

I'd love to see play sidebars sprinkled through 5E. Not just bits of fiction, but tidbits of players discussing/playing the game fiction (like the old examples of play). Not done as a big wall several pages long, but split out, with perhaps giving examples of certain sections of the rule as it plays out a story.

Mattachine · May 1, 2012

I would rather not see D&D return to the days of "nerd snobbery."

Luckily, no matter what we opine hear on this forum, the new edition isn't going to be written at the post-high school reading level. The game is being created for a mass market, which means the reading level will likely be pegged at about 6-8th grade.

Moreover, the reading level doesn't have to be difficult to be good writing.

jshaft37 · May 1, 2012

Reading level should be set to be digestible by 13 year olds, and older. I don't want to sit down and read James Joyce's take on D&D mechanics. I want to read something that is clear and interesting. I'd also like it written in a "mature" fashion (not R-rated). Just as someone else referenced that Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are rated PG-13 but are still "mature" in nature, as an example.

Steely_Dan · May 1, 2012

Stormonu said:
If the game is written at the level of Moldvay basic, that's all I care for.

Yeah, the Basic Rulebook is "Ages 10 and Up", and does not talk down to you, nor is it a dry read, IMO.

fjw70 · May 1, 2012

Just give me rules as clearly written as possible. That is all I ask.

I loved playing 1e as a kid but the writing left a lot to be desired (but I am greatful to EGG for teaching me about eg and ie when I was a kid).

Kynn · May 1, 2012

Crazy Jerome said:
Now, you want to go pull an 8th grade literature textbook and have this discussion? I bet you a bucket of free bits that it is 75% drivel.

I did a quick Google search and found pages like this one:

Popular Eighth Grade Literature Printables for Teachers (Grade 8) - TeacherVision.com

"Sarah, Plain and Tall," "Diary of Anne Frank," and Shakespeare's "Romeo & Juliet" are worthless drivel?

To me, it sounds like you simply don't have an informed grasp on what an 8th grade reading level looks like, and why it doesn't mean "talking down" to anyone.

Did you have a particular 8th grade textbook in mind?

Kynn · May 1, 2012

bloodtide said:
This is a great example. When I was a kid we did not have such ''lowly grade level'' books to read. What did I read as a kid? Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit. Edgar Rice Burrows. Issac Asimov. And all the books we would now call 'classics' like the works of Mark Twain, 1984 or Uncle Tom's Cabin. I had read most of them before I was even a teen. Sure, I read Bunnica(the vampire bunny that only eats vegetables) when I was like six. But well before the time I was ten, I was reading 'adult' fiction.

...

I loved the feeling of 'rising above kid status' you got when you read 'adult' books. Even as a kid, I could talk to and impress an adult, by talking about an 'adult' novel. I loved the feeling of 'growing into the adult world' through books. But kids today, just want to 'wallow in the kid mud'. All the kiddie stuff put out today is just so much fluff....at best.

I hate to burst your bubble and your feelings of superiority, but none of those books you're naming are particularly written at a high level of reading. They're all around 8th grade level of reading, give or take.

Do you understand what "level of reading" means? It doesn't mean that you get extra points for reading them. It just means they're easy to understand. Mark Twain, for example, is not a particularly hard read.

The concepts may or may not be "adult," but the writing style doesn't dictate what the concepts can be. Many good novels are written to be easily read.

Crazy Jerome · May 1, 2012

Steely_Dan said:
Yeah, the Basic Rulebook is "Ages 10 and Up", and does not talk down to you, nor is it a dry read, IMO.

I'll agree with that. The tone seems to have been carried through to the Rules Compendium as well, though I'm not sure how much of that is directly catering to ages 10 and up. (Though I suppose the sections that are suspect are optional, anyway, making it a rather moot point. Presumably, the 10 year old that found them difficult would ignore them until later, and carry on merrily with the main parts.)

Morrus · May 1, 2012

I'm on my iPhone, so please imagine this post is in red text.

There are a few people in this thread taking little passive-aggressive jabs at each other. Knock it off, please.

If you find yourself asking a sarcastic question, using words like "smugness", "elitism", or sarcastically referring to "superiority", delete your text and try again without doing that.

This is an issue clearly important to people, and we should discuss it. This does NOT mean insulting each other. We are all allowed to have our own preferences in terms of text style, and we can present our own preferences and disagree politely without attacking others.

/modvoice disengage