Write this game for adults
ExploderWizard
Hero
What does age or amount of play experience have to do with intelligent writing?
I would be put off by the 4E writing style even if I had been in 6th grade when reading it. D&D should be written for literate, intelligent people of any age who may be interested.
herrozerro
First Post
I'd like to think i have a decent reading level, but im unsure why people keep comparing it with the bearinstain bears and see spot run. Hyperbole much?
What kind of real examples are we talking about?
What's very interesting to me is that I interface with the books in a totally different way.
I want super plain writing in the core books, at least in the front of each section (class summaries, race summaries, etc). The one page "Here are the stats, here are some tropes to play with" is great, and then it can go on to the added description all it wants; I know where I need to go to reference stuff, and the rest is so much hand-wavey flak that the PCs can use or not, as is there whim.
But primarily, I am looking for a quick summary, and then ease of access to finding information. The color coding and templating was great for this.
I want super plain writing in the core books, at least in the front of each section (class summaries, race summaries, etc). The one page "Here are the stats, here are some tropes to play with" is great, and then it can go on to the added description all it wants; I know where I need to go to reference stuff, and the rest is so much hand-wavey flak that the PCs can use or not, as is there whim.
But primarily, I am looking for a quick summary, and then ease of access to finding information. The color coding and templating was great for this.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Write this game for children.
Let the adults have their stupid game. Kids want a cool game with awesome pictures that understands us and what we want. It don't have to be a different game than the adult game just give us the game we can run for us without them. If you make the different better one for us, then you can lie to the parents that they need their own.
Let the adults have their stupid game. Kids want a cool game with awesome pictures that understands us and what we want. It don't have to be a different game than the adult game just give us the game we can run for us without them. If you make the different better one for us, then you can lie to the parents that they need their own.
We 30- somethings are the ones with all the money. We're either buying it for ourselves or buying it for our kids. It had better well cater to us!
When I was 10 or so, my parents bought me my first RPG. The game contributed - in a small way - to my education. It helped sharpen my vocabulary and my math skills, amongst other things. The world of literature it led me into exercised my mind, and was part of the reason I grew up with above average literary skills.
The game didn't dumb itself down for me. It challenged me. And that challenge is what made it attractive.
I owe Gygax & Co. a good deal.
And that very challenging nature is WHY my parents bought me a weird uncool game. The role of these games was beyond that of mere entertainment.
Oni
First Post
It does not matter how clear your book is, if it's boring to read people won't want to read it. WotC needs to decide who their target audience is and write for them, and everyone is not a target audience.
There is a lot tied up in this question actually. Clarity, authorial voice, perception, accessibility. For instance how many kids put down the game down back in the day because it wasn't as accessible versus how many latched onto it because it was a challenge, something meant for someone older. How many kids get into something because it's accessible and inoffensive to the whole family, versus how many because of a hint of the forbidden , something mom might not entirely approve of. Do people want to read a cold, technical voice, a rambling authority making pronouncements from on high, ornate purple prose, something very formal, or something that addresses the reader like they're the only one there, something conversational, et c.
Personally, I enjoy the 2e core books writing style more than any other edition, and I've read at least bits and pieces of most of them. I thought it was clear without being sterile and that it affected a friendly, helpful tone without being patronizing. 0e is darn near incomprehensible in places, a lot of the stuff put out for the various versions of basic is workman like and gets the job done, 1e is rambling and painful to read to me (I realize that is an unpopular opinion in some circles), 3e was okay, but nothing exciting, and 4e is mind-numbing and dry.
There is a lot tied up in this question actually. Clarity, authorial voice, perception, accessibility. For instance how many kids put down the game down back in the day because it wasn't as accessible versus how many latched onto it because it was a challenge, something meant for someone older. How many kids get into something because it's accessible and inoffensive to the whole family, versus how many because of a hint of the forbidden , something mom might not entirely approve of. Do people want to read a cold, technical voice, a rambling authority making pronouncements from on high, ornate purple prose, something very formal, or something that addresses the reader like they're the only one there, something conversational, et c.
Personally, I enjoy the 2e core books writing style more than any other edition, and I've read at least bits and pieces of most of them. I thought it was clear without being sterile and that it affected a friendly, helpful tone without being patronizing. 0e is darn near incomprehensible in places, a lot of the stuff put out for the various versions of basic is workman like and gets the job done, 1e is rambling and painful to read to me (I realize that is an unpopular opinion in some circles), 3e was okay, but nothing exciting, and 4e is mind-numbing and dry.
Plus ten billion.
There was a recent interview on the Colbert Report with a professor who wrote a book (I can't remember what it was) about literacy rates going down and how university degrees require far less analytical and intellectual thought because they've been reduced to multiple answer questions instead of essays. Or something like that, I can't remember the details.
My point is that accessibility shouldn't require the dumbing down of the language. Unless it's explaining a rule, in which case it should be as clear as possible, prosaic explanations, imaginative prose, and the use of a wide vocabulary should absolutely be a part of D&D. I used to carry a massive dictionary around with my D&D books and considered it a part of my collection solely because whenever I would hear or read a word I didn't know the meaning of, I'd want to immediately look it up.
The youth of today are so damned lazy they can't even be bothered to use capital letters at the start of sentences, let alone half-decent grammar or spelling. It drives me bananas that I, someone who dropped out of high school before the senior years, have better spelling and a wider vocabulary than people in university!
I hate it when people pull out their "I'm sooooo smart" egos and start talking about things like "this was written at a certain grade level" to justify how special and smart and genius they are.
The truth is, it's easy to write convoluted stuff that is at "a higher grade level," and it's harder to write effectively in a way that communicates simply and directly. Writing to an 8th grade level instead of a 10th grade level is a valuable skill, not a sign that someone is talking down to you.
(I also suspect that most people couldn't recognize "12th grade writing" or "8th grade writing" or "6th grade writing" if they saw it.)
The truth is, it's easy to write convoluted stuff that is at "a higher grade level," and it's harder to write effectively in a way that communicates simply and directly. Writing to an 8th grade level instead of a 10th grade level is a valuable skill, not a sign that someone is talking down to you.
(I also suspect that most people couldn't recognize "12th grade writing" or "8th grade writing" or "6th grade writing" if they saw it.)
Well, I couldn't, that's for sure! I don't even know what an 8th grade is! 8 year olds? 14 year olds? 21 year olds?
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