Economy and D&D

Orius · Nov 17, 2012

Very interesting math, and I may take a look over it sometime if I remember the thread exists.

Though I wonder how many players are more interested in how many xps an NPC is worth rather than gp.

(Of course in 1e, they're practically the same thing!

)

S'mon · Nov 17, 2012

Blackbrrd said:
Actually, in Norway you had very few villages at all. Instead the farms were spread throughout the countryside. You had some trading towns like Bergen, Trondheim, Tønsberg and Oslo. All located with access to the sea. Very little trade was probably done overland.

How far apart would you say coastal settlements were in medieval Norway? When I visited in 2004 I got the impression ca 20 miles or so would have been about right.

S'mon · Dec 1, 2012

Blackbrrd said:
Actually, in Norway you had very few villages at all. Instead the farms were spread throughout the countryside. You had some trading towns like Bergen, Trondheim, Tønsberg and Oslo. All located with access to the sea. Very little trade was probably done overland.

Villages/population centres on the coast, farmsteads throughout the countryside, yes? AFAICT there were definitely some trade centres where farmers could acquire goods they did not produce themselves, though the level of self reliance would have been much higher than in richer farmland areas such as most of medieval France, or southern England.

Blackbrrd · Dec 1, 2012

I came over this whitepaper on the subject of farms/hamlets/villages http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/publications/iha-medieval-settlements/medievalsettlements.pdf basically it depended on how rich the soil was. If the soil was rich, you got villages, otherwise you got seperate farms.

Loonook · Dec 9, 2012

Interesting edition to the thread.

I will definitely have to check it out.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

jasper · Dec 10, 2012

Loonook your math looks a little off but I don't have my books handy so I let stand. Also Food does not come in ready to eat squares or cubes, so your food per wagon seems a bit off also. You also are trying to mix real world examples from across the time and world, which are not adding up or forgetting your source of production of food. You also are forgetting wear and tear on durable items. But it a great series of ideas.
Ps you should be able to dig out my post on decanter of endless water, and Hong's 7.5 billion Chicken rant. If not I can repost them.

Cleon · Dec 15, 2012

Loonook said:
Overall if you survive to ages below you have a Net Worth of (includes costs of meager living 24 gp/yr.):

Hold on a mo, where do you get this costs of meager living of 24 gold per year from?

Are you assuming this commoner's growing his own food? If he is then the time that takes would subtract from his "working for money" hours.

If he was buying food at the 3E D&D costs in the SRD Food, Drink, and Lodging table it'd beggar them even if he's living off bread and cheese, drinks nothing but water and only eats meat once a year.

e.g. assuming the commoner's performing hard labour, they'd be eating, say, 2 pounds of bread (8 cp) and a pound of cheese (2 sp) a day - or the equivalent in whatever the local basic food is (noodles/tofu/etc). That's 2.8 sp a day, or 1022 sp a year. Even if their diet's nothing but bread and water, that's still 292 silver pieces a year.

In my own game, I resolved this by assuming the Food, Drink, and Lodging prices were grossly inflated "adventurers prices" that normal peasants don't pay. It costs 1 silver a day to hire an untrained labourer according to the Services table, which presumably covers their basic maintenance costs (e.g. food and a suit of artisan's clothing every year).

So, the 1 sp "hunk of cheese" is a fine Brie, and the 2 cp "loaf of bread" is an luxury white loaf. A peasant should be able to purchase a day's worth of rye bread and cheddar for less than 10 coppers.

Loonook · Dec 15, 2012

Cleon said:
Hold on a mo, where do you get this costs of meager living of 24 gold per year from?

3.x DMG p. 130, sidebar marked Variant: Upkeep. Provides one of the easy no-muss, no-fuss base upkeep costs for various character types.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

Cleon · Dec 17, 2012

Loonook said:
3.x DMG p. 130, sidebar marked Variant: Upkeep. Provides one of the easy no-muss, no-fuss base upkeep costs for various character types.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

Ta, I suspected it was in the 3E DMG somewhere.

I'm so used to using online SRD references I don't often pull out my copies very often.

Those upkeep costs are a pretty good match for the prices in the Player's Handbook Food, Drink & Lodging table. 45 gp a month is plenty for Common level stay at an Inn (5 sp/day) and meals (3 sp) over a month (30 days * 8sp = 24 gp), plus incidentals like horsefeed and equipment maintenance. Poor lodgings & food will cost 9 gp over the same period.

They still don't match very well the "list price" of basics like break, cheese and ale.

Also, these are upkeep prices for "Adventurers on the go" - the equivalent of staying at a hotel and eating out every day. 'Regular folk' would be living at home and preparing their own food, so their Upkeep costs should really be lower than that.

Loonook · Dec 17, 2012

Cleon said:
Ta, I suspected it was in the 3E DMG somewhere.

I'm so used to using online SRD references I don't often pull out my copies very often.

Those upkeep costs are a pretty good match for the prices in the Player's Handbook Food, Drink & Lodging table. 45 gp a month is plenty for Common level stay at an Inn (5 sp/day) and meals (3 sp) over a month (30 days * 8sp = 24 gp), plus incidentals like horsefeed and equipment maintenance. Poor lodgings & food will cost 9 gp over the same period.

They still don't match very well the "list price" of basics like break, cheese and ale.

Also, these are upkeep prices for "Adventurers on the go" - the equivalent of staying at a hotel and eating out every day. 'Regular folk' would be living at home and preparing their own food, so their Upkeep costs should really be lower than that.

Not really. If you think of the average cow producing ~ 5 gallons/day. That comes out to around 5 lbs of butter and 3 lbs of cheese with a gallon of milk to spare. A half dozen hens can lay eggs for the day, and all of these goods could be traded for other needs. Combine this with the ability to raise on a small plot around your home and the average villager is doing quite well supporting themselves... But will still need money for basic items throughout the year. As an average it works pretty solidly figuring replacement costs for various animals over their life cycle (if breeding fails).

For a laborer in the city a 1 SP/day job could cause some issues just due to the costs... But then a laborer could also be seen assisting the baker, the butcher, the cheesemonger, etc. when the day is slow.

Slainte,

-Loonook.