Why is realism "lame"?

I just wonder. Games add more and more over the top stuff to appeal to their target audience and I can't really understand why this is necessary.

Somehow "down to earth" or even "realistic" stuff has become so lame in the mind of the current generation of gamers that they do not want to do anything to do with it. For fantasy this means among other things armor has to be non-functional and covered in spikes and swords have to be giant slabs of metal no person could wield.
Why is that? It can't be because of escapism. We do not live in a medieval/fantasy world so a "down to earth" setting would be equally effective in that.
And when you look back at the worlds history, especially at how other cultures than your own developed it is easy to see that a lot of interesting things happened there which would inspire your mind equally, if not more so than the usual fantasy cliches we get instead.

So what went "wrong"? When did save the world from ultimate evil plots, spikey armor, buster swords and fights against huge numbers of enemies which you easily dispatch with your superpowers become the norm? And why?

As with many things, it tends to go back and forth. It could be that it's "high fantasy's" turn to do stuff.

It could be that you're simply looking in the wrong places for the "realist" feel that you crave?

Tastes could simply change, or it could be power inflation?

And it also depends on what it is you mean when you say "realism". That word means different things to different people. It could be:

HP vs Wounds
Healing times
AC vs DR (this is a huge one)
Attacks per round
Rounds vs Seconds

Does weapon reach factor into who hits first? What about facing? Do I constantly see 360 degrees around me at all times during battle?

Do you want Realism, Escapism, or a mixture of both? or perhaps something else entirely...

TV, movies, video games and other mass media, and the designs created from those, impose what is cool to mass market audience. As budgets for various fantasy epics get put to film, trying to look 'bad ass' creates those overly ornate armors and swords, wilder looking monsters, etc.

When fantasy stories were limited to the written and spoken word, our own imaginations tell us what things looked at. As one blockbuster movie or game follows another each visual examples of what came before, so each one tries to be bigger, badder, more ornate - until we get to where we are now.

We're letting the costume artists, special effects artists, makeup artists of the blockbuster media products determine for us what something should appear. As if the human imagination was not enough on it's own.

I don't agree that all fantasy RPGs follow this paradigm, but targetting the mass market audience to sell your products, sometimes following what the media is doing helps sell things. At least, I think that's where that concept is coming from...

I don't think all game designers follow that paradigm. For my Kaidan (Japanese horror) setting for PFRPG, my goals have to be a close to reality/history as it pertains to Japanese occupations (classes), social castes, clothing, armor, weapons, items, everything. Elements of Kaidan are based on true historical examples of everything possible. Even the unrealistic aspects are based on pre-modern Japanese legends, folklore and ghost story tradition. I think the reality of feudal Japan is exotic enough, not to have to create a more exotic katana, for example.

The big companies (WotC, Paizo's of the world) seek the most common denominator - the easiest path to profits, and following the mass media renditions of what that looks like is the easiest way. Its the job of the small game publisher to deviate from that if its the better way to go. While we too want to make money, it doesn't require us to circumvent our own creativity to follow the current mass market idea of what that is.

Derren said:

Games add more and more over the top stuff to appeal to their target audience and I can't really understand why this is necessary.

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I think you might be conflating "games" (or even just "roleplaying games") with D&D and its clones. "Realism" has never been "lame" - it's just not the only type of game, and D&D specifically is very poorly suited to it.

For "realistic" can I suggets GURPS, Hârn (and the HârnMaster system), Chivalry & Sorcery and/or Traveller? All of those, I think, handle "realistic" far more simply and straightforwardly that D&D has ever done.

Speaking for myself, using those other systems for "realistic" games and not trying to do "realism" with D&D has brought me back to D&D with a renewed appreciation for what it does do well - which is gonzo heroism with strategic underpinnings.

Derren said:

So what went "wrong"? When did save the world from ultimate evil plots, spikey armor, buster swords and fights against huge numbers of enemies which you easily dispatch with your superpowers become the norm? And why?

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I blame Tolkien and the Matrix*


* I knew we were in trouble when I saw a commercial for Charlies Angles and its was all Matrix-like.

Balesir said:

I think you might be conflating "games" (or even just "roleplaying games") with D&D and its clones.

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Actually I am more talking about games in general, RPG or also video games and also the movie industry.

gamerprinter said:

TV, movies, video games and other mass media, and the designs created from those, impose what is cool to mass market audience. As budgets for various fantasy epics get put to film, trying to look 'bad ass' creates those overly ornate armors and swords, wilder looking monsters, etc.

Click to expand...

I would argue that at the same time, although from a much different angle, audiences are influencing and imposing their version of "cool" on those same exact companies. I've been in on far too many creative and concept meetings where people are being dragged along behind the latest poll numbers and responses from test audiences.

It's a constant give and take between the two groups. Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Derren said:

Actually I am more talking about games in general, RPG or also video games and also the movie industry.

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This sounds like a case of selection bias. "Realism" gets plenty of screen time in video games (modern military shooters are all the rage) and movies (for every Avengers there's an Argo). Moreover, kewl powers and giant swords isn't a new thing. Gilgamesh, Beowulf and the Knights of the Round Table were all super heroes dealing with magnificent, otherworldly threats.

And I disagree with the above statement that D&D doesn't do "realism" well. It does it very well at low levels and also happens to do the super-powered stuff well at high levels. The problem is the speed of advancement, which any group can tweak to their needs if they aren't intent upon running through all the levels in a year (because of an Adventure Path, for example).

I don't agree with the premise. For every fantastical movie series, there's another doing a "gritty" Bond reboot or Nolan's version of Batman or something. Maybe escapism trends towards the escapist - that makes sense - but it's by no means universal.

Separately, emotive terms like "lame" merely show that the conclusion has already been reached before asking the question.