Imagine there was another Earthlike planet in our system

jonesy · Apr 4, 2013

Derren said:
During the height of the cold war we already had enough nuclear weapons to scorch every part of the planet.

There was enough to wreck civilization, but not enough to assure someone on the other still wouldn't have more left. That's one of the biggest problems of MAD. Reaching the assured part is HARD.

Joker · Apr 4, 2013

Morrus said:
Attacking another planet requires a hell of a lot more than one or two insane people. It's not even vaguely reminiscent of our Cold War capabilities. We - literally - can't do anything. Developing the ability to do so would take decades and tens of billions; no single impulse decision can do that. It needs to be a concerted unwavering economy-destroying effort by major countries over a dozen successive governments/administrations.

You think Iraq is expensive? That's bankrupted the world. How on earth are we going to do the same on another planet at a thousand times the cost?

I'm talking about people working up other people. And if those people have influence you really only need a few. It's not about what we can do now, it's about what we fear they can do. And if we fear they can attack us we will have no choice but to gear our economy towards that end.

I actually think a vast threat, even if it isn't real, would be a unifying force for our planet.

Derren · Apr 4, 2013

jonesy said:
There was enough to wreck civilization, but not enough to assure someone on the other still wouldn't have more left. That's one of the biggest problems of MAD. Reaching the assured part is HARD.

See my edit. You do not need to reach assured destruction, just eliminate their retaliation capability.

jonesy · Apr 4, 2013

Derren said:
See my edit. You do not need to reach assured destruction, just eliminate their retaliation capability.

How do you know when you've done that?

Joker · Apr 4, 2013

jonesy said:
How do you know when you've done that?

You don't. Que research into planet busting weaponry.

jonesy · Apr 4, 2013

Joker said:
You don't. Que research into planet busting weaponry.

And so we move into the level of crazy beyond belief where we give others a justification for killing us without a single thought. And the chain reaction begins. :uhoh:

Derren · Apr 4, 2013

Joker said:
You don't. Que research into planet busting weaponry.

Bad idea considering all the effects on the solar system.
The best bet is to cripple the retaliation capability and then deploy biological weapons. If you can't locate their launch facilities you need to kill all of them quickly. A radiation based weapon might be the best bet for that, but that one is pure science fiction. Or you need to find a way to intercept their weapons and make sure yours go through.

Ed_Laprade · Apr 4, 2013

Unfortunately for this discussion, the OP has made assumptions that are mutually exclusive. He assumes that the two races have the same technological base, then asks what we'd do now? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. As has already been pointed out, we'd almost certainly make radio contact with them in the 20s or 30s. From that point on, everything changes. Von Braun was amazed when the allies asked where he'd gotten his ideas from. His answer? "From your Dr. Robert Goddard!" I would also bring to your attention the Disney 'Man Into Space' series from the 50s. If the cold war space race hadn't happened we'd be on Mars now (using atomic powered ion drive ships), with space stations and probaly a Moon base as well. So we'd have a whole different set of space technologies than we we do now when that alternate reality got to the 21st century.

I'd also like to bring your attention to a book writen by H. Beam Piper and someone else titled First Cycle, which considers exactly this scenario, although the two planets orbit each other. (Yes, they wipe each other out.)

As for the first contact story that was mentioned, I believe the title is, in fact, First Contact. By Murray Leinster? It's easy enough to look up, my potential confusion is because there were a number of first contact stories published around the same time. But, for obvious reasons, that's the most well known.

Morrus · Apr 4, 2013

Ed_Laprade said:
Unfortunately for this discussion, the OP has made assumptions that are mutually exclusive. He assumes that the two races have the same technological base, then asks what we'd do now? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Huh? What doesn't work that way? Are you the Doctor?

The OP made an assumption that there was another earth like planet in place of Mars. I think we can safely say our solar system doesn't work that way.

The idea is to run with his premise. We can all tell him his premise is wrong. He knows that, too.