Do you also believe that for someone to gain something, one has to take something from someone else first?
Also, I find it hard to believe that every thing a person wants is at odds with somebody elses wants. That is most likely demonstrably untrue.
Wow, a robot passing a Turing's test might not be that far away
- Thread starter Kramodlog
- Start date
Do you also believe that for someone to gain something, one has to take something from someone else first?
Also, I find it hard to believe that every thing a person wants is at odds with somebody elses wants. That is most likely demonstrably untrue.
Homicidal_Squirrel
Adventurer
Can I ask you something? Do you drink because of work? Seriously, not trying to sound like a jerk. I ask because when I was younger I had applied for a job with Kaplan University. The job title was "Educational Counselor." The actual job was being a telemarketer trying to sell the school to new students and enroll them in classes.
The first month of employment was just training, so it wasn't too bad. The second month was being on the phone. I seriously hated that job. I had to call people that had been called way too many times for several months.
A lot of the time people didn't even realize they had given their information and that we would be calling them. They would fill out those "free gift" things on some site, and for the next year they would be getting calls from several online schools.
The worst part was that the people running the hell they called a call center were always on your case to enroll someone. I had a friend who hated it as much as I did, and the two of us would go out to lunch together. He would get high, and I would drink just to be able to make back to work without killing everyone in there.
I was quickly developing a drinking habit just to be able to work there. I didn't even make it to the end of my second month of employment with them. I just called up one morning and told them that I quit. They had an interesting pay system. They paid, at least back then, $34K base salary. If you sold (enrolled) a certain number of students on forking over their money or taking out financial aid (which required loans to pay for the classes), you could make more. You could make close to $100K if you were really good at suckering people into debt.
I felt like a terrible person trying to get people to get into so much debt for a pretty useless degree. I think it cost about $20K for an A.A. I honestly felt like a terrible person, so I drank... a lot... like a lot... during my lunch hour, just to be able to go back to work.
It's a generality. It is not precise and there are bound to be exceptions.
But there are plenty of things that you want, that if you get it, is likely in conflict with somebody else. Be it the job you have, the Xbox 4 you just bought, or the political goal that you have that we're not going to discuss that somebody else likely opposes.
As to your first question, something that is scarce and likely valuable like a job is inherently exclusive. Me getting my job meant somebody else didn't get a job (probably not forever, but it delayed their receiving a new paycheck). I'm not taking it from somebody else, but I am depriving them of it or delaying the satisfaction of their want.
Now there's probably tons of examples of things that don't follow that principle. But they're not interesting to the discussion. There's plenty of dirt. Nobody cares if I have 2 fistfuls in my pocket and you don't (and technically, you can't have the exact dirt I have, because it's in my pocket).
The point the guy stuck in a telemarketing job was that my want is in conflict with his want. He's not evil for wanting a paycheck, I'm not evil for wishing all of humanity was free from sales people peddling their wares at dinner time. But clearly, if one of us gets his way (BTW, i'm not going to get my way as it's a ridiculous wish), then the other will not get his way.
I pointed out this dynamic because where someone might be trying to make me be the meanie for not liking a business a person is in because of its negative behaviors, when there's people who don't have any respect for the fact that he hasn't advanced out of said job.
I hope he finds a better opportunity that he'll enjoy. but him doing so means somebody else doesn't get that job.
Homicidal_Squirrel
Adventurer
Here ya go!
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?313267-Your-Turing-Test-Big-quot-F-quot
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334724-Rise-of-the-(scamming-)-machines!
Since that second thread, I really haven't gotten many robocallers. Most if what I'm getting are the Windows-Peggys who haven't given up and still don't accept that I own no Windows machines, and high-pressure investment brokers, half of who, I swear claim to have recommended the same stock to me to check out as proof of their abilities. The others want me to do some Oil & Gas investing.
Some of those guys- and they ARE real people- are polite and I'm polite right back. Others, however, hang up on me once I say I'm not a certified investor (someone who has more Han $100k in the market).
Kramodlog
Naked and living in a barrel
I was sarcastic, if it wasn't clear.
Well, here in Germany, it actually _is_ illegal. You may only make a telemarketing call if you've received written permission to call beforehand.
And I'm quite glad that this is the case now, since it was abused pretty badly in the past:
At some point my parents received well over 30 calls a day! When one of the telemarketers managed to trick them into revealing their account number, all kinds of shady letterbox companies started to charge for imaginary services and unordered products. When they finally asked me for help, it took quite a bit of effort to get all the money back. They had to change their account number and phone number and were pestered for another two years by debt collection agencies.
You have my sympathy for feeling that you are forced to work in that
line of business, but I'd rather see it shut down completely, even if it costs jobs.
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