The AC on a Budget challenge

delericho · Dec 20, 2013

Cyclone_Joker said:
Furthermore, it's Dragon. I really think that's all that needs to be said, as to taking it seriously. I mean, why not start including 3rd party books or homebrew while you're at it?

Normally, I'd agree, but in this instance it is clearly marked as an official update, it's not new material, and it's done by James Wyatt (who wrote the 3.0e OA in the first place).

Plus, with the way it's worded, the "fix" only applied with +1 cloth, +1 chahar aina, and +2 dastana. I just think that's worth pointing out.

No, that's absurd. That last sentence is very clearly an example to show what he's saying. It is the bolded sentence that gives the general rule - only one enhancement bonus applies.

Cyclone_Joker · Dec 20, 2013

delericho said:
Normally, I'd agree, but in this instance it is clearly marked as an official update, it's not new material, and it's done by James Wyatt (who wrote the 3.0e OA in the first place).

...And? It's precisely as relevant as Mouseferatu's Shadowcasting fix. Which is to say, in a discussion of rules, totally irrelevant unless explicitly stated as being used.

No, that's absurd. That last sentence is very clearly an example to show what he's saying. It is the bolded sentence that gives the general rule - only one enhancement bonus applies.

Wrong. AC has an enhancement bonus. Armor has an enhancement bonus. An armor bonus does not have an enhancement bonus. The way Enhancement bonuses work with armor makes this blatantly obvious. The way it's worded, it's meaningless. So the specific trumps the general, in that that particular combination doesn't stack, but that falls in the same boat as Dispel Psionic's +20.

Further, and this is the important bit, it's an "update." Not errata. Unless you can find me a RAW source that explicitly states that such an "update" is RAW, or a PDF as an errata on WotC's website, in which case I will gladly concede that point. But, finally, and this is the kicker, unless you it on WotC's website, it's still DRAGON. If we're actually taking it seriously, there is so much wrong I don't even know where to start.

delericho · Dec 20, 2013

Cyclone_Joker said:
...And? It's precisely as relevant as Mouseferatu's Shadowcasting fix.

The difference is that Mouseferatu's Shadowcasting fix isn't marked as official.

Wrong. AC has an enhancement bonus. Armor has an enhancement bonus. An armor bonus does not have an enhancement bonus. The way Enhancement bonuses work with armor makes this blatantly obvious. The way it's worded, it's meaningless. So the specific trumps the general, in that that particular combination doesn't stack, but that falls in the same boat as Dispel Psionic's +20.

CITE.

I've given my source - official, in-print, and by one of WotC's own designers (which is actually more than most 3.5e materials can claim).

Now it's your turn. Provide a source that shws that you can apply two enhancement bonuses to the same bonus type at the same time. Which should be easy if, as you assert, "bonuses don't work that way."

Cyclone_Joker · Dec 20, 2013

delericho said:
The difference is that Mouseferatu's Shadowcasting fix isn't marked as official.

So if he said it was official on the forum it would be?

Lolno.

CITE.

I've given my source - official, in-print, and by one of WotC's own designers (which is actually more than most 3.5e materials can claim).

Now it's your turn. Provide a source that shws that you can apply two enhancement bonuses to the same bonus type at the same time. Which should be easy if, as you assert, "bonuses don't work that way."

Chahar Aina and Dastana explicitly stack with a Chain Shirt. An enhancement to armor increases the armor bonus.

There you go, you're welcome.

delericho · Dec 20, 2013

Cyclone_Joker said:
So if he said it was official on the forum it would be?

No, but if it was marked "official" and published in the official Dungeons & Dragons magazine then it would be.

Chahar Aina and Dastana explicitly stack with a Chain Shirt. An enhancement to armor increases the armor bonus.

There you go, you're welcome.

Number of rules sources referenced: zero. Would you like to try again?

Also of note: earlier in this thread, back when discussing Caster Level boosters, you cited "Reserves of Strength", a feat taken from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting - itself a licensed product. So, are to assume that you can charry-pick your sources, but the rest of us have to ignore anything that damages your argument?

Cyclone_Joker · Dec 20, 2013

delericho said:
No, but if it was marked "official" and published in the official Dungeons & Dragons magazine then it would be.

"Number of rules sources referenced: zero. Would you like to try again?"

Number of rules sources referenced: zero. Would you like to try again?

You mean "One."

So, no, I won't.

Also of note: earlier in this thread, back when discussing Caster Level boosters, you cited "Reserves of Strength", a feat taken from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting - itself a licensed product. So, are to assume that you can charry-pick your sources, but the rest of us have to ignore anything that damages your argument?

...

If you honestly can't tell the difference between a published book and Dragon, there's honestly no point in continuing.

Jackinthegreen · Dec 20, 2013

Oh the joys of rules citations... How about the fact that enhancement bonuses to any stat are tracked separately from the stat they enhance? So while chahar-aina and dastana's armor bonus to AC stacks with some other armors, the enhancement bonus itself is still just enhancing the armor bonus total, thus it does not stack.

delericho · Dec 20, 2013

Jackinthegreen said:
Oh the joys of rules citations... How about the fact that enhancement bonuses to any stat are tracked separately from the stat they enhance? So while chahar-aina and dastana's armor bonus to AC stacks with some other armors, the enhancement bonus itself is still just enhancing the armor bonus total, thus it does not stack.

You're wasting your breath (well, electrons).

Time to walk away.

Cyclone_Joker · Dec 20, 2013

Mildly depressing, but since you've not provided a link to official errata, I graciously accept your concession.

Umbran · Dec 21, 2013

Cyclone_Joker said:
I graciously accept your concession.

This was a rules-discussion, not a contest. No winners and losers, no need for concessions. This last, certainly, has nothing to do with the topic, and so we read it as an ego pot-shot, which is inappropriate.

Cyclone_Joker won't be back to discuss this for a few days.

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