ChampaignSupernova
First Post
Is there any advice someone can give on retrofitting 3.0/3.5 E prestige classes for 1E AD&D? I was thinking along the lines of say a Thief to a Thief-Acrobat in UA.
Might Be Stretching This But....
Halivar
First Post
The problem with switching what class you take next level is the hit and save tables; 3rd Edition fixed this problem by introducing stackable hit and save bonuses. No such luck in 1E. My advice is to leave 3E prestige classes where they are, steal their 1E and 2E prototypes, and let your players do 1E human-style dual-classing with them.
ChampaignSupernova
First Post
Hmmm, ok. Thanks. I didn't really think there was a way to do exactly what I wanted. Was feeling a bit nostalgic for my 3E days, after going back to 1E. I like 1E, on the whole; but missing the concept of prestige classes, monster progression and monsters as PCs in my game.
Halivar
First Post
I hear ya. I collected every 1E book I could get my hands on to get the classes, and removed all multi-classing and dual-classing restrictions. It went a long way to adding spice to the mix. Even had a multi'd fighter-ninja eventually dual-class as a kensai. Good concept, good roleplay. Try it out and see how it works.
grodog
Hero
I'm not quite following you, CS: can you elaborate further, please? It sounds like you're asking how to retro-convert a 3.x PrC to a Thief/Thief-Acrobat combo in 1e, but I'm not sure.
edit:
1e definitely includes some of these features, although not as broadly as 3.x does:
- monsters definitely can be stronger than standard versions/advance, in particular leader type monsters among humanoids and giants when encountered in their lairs; ixitxachitl and sahuagin also follow this model
- many monsters have ranges of HD (anhkheg, elementals, dragons, dragon turtles, many fish and dinosaurs, piercers, etc.), while in others their descriptions hint at larger versions (bulette) or there are variants hidden in strange places (hydras top out at 12 HD in the MM, but go up to 16 or 20 HD in Appendix E in the DMG, for example)
- half ogres are another variant PC race developed by both EGG (Dragon #29) and Roger Moore (I think, in Dragon #73); there's a half-gnoll in the old d20 supplement Valus (Different Worlds 2004) that could easily be adapted to broaden out the half-monstrous humanoid PC options, too
- nothing prevents you from playing another humanoid race or a full monster as a PC in AD&D, either---you just need to get the DM's permission, and then to work out the basics: stats min/max (there's some guidelines on Str in the DMG, MM has Int, the rest can often be inferred/defined from there and comparisons to other races), class level limits (D&DG and DMG both have info on levels for witch doctors and shamans, which may or may not substitude for clerics and druids and MUs), multii-classing options, and any applicable racial benefits/penalties
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ChampaignSupernova
First Post
Hey Grodog,
No, sorry about the confusion. I was using the example of going from a typical AD & D 1E thief to a UA thief-acrobat once the requirements were met as an example of what I wanted to do. With other AD & D classes. I really liked TerraDave's suggestion of looking closer at the AD&D bard, something along those lines is more what I was thinking, though not necessarily a F/T/B combo. Or another example I thought of is how ninja's in OA need another class first be it a fighter type class, a spellcaster class or a yakuza (stealthy) class. What I really liked about it was the possibility of uniqueness that PrC brought -- doing something a bit different than the typical classes. One thought I had was taking a bushi/ninja combo from OA to make a special assassin unit in The Scarlet Brotherhood in a Greyhawk setting.
I'll look up the other examples you mentioned. Also, I do have a White Dwarf with an article about lizardmen as playable races. Also I have the Role-Aids book Giants. That has rules for giants as PCs.
Thanks for the bard suggestion, didn't even think about that. Not too much in the way of ideas for starting points at the moment, other than the bushi/ninja I mentioned above, but for something like that most of the work has already been done. For my campaign, atm, I am mostly thinking of various sects of magic-users and/or clerics. With those, though, multi-classing may be an option too. Though for humans I guess I'd have to fudge on armor restrictions depending on the exact nature of the character I wanted.
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TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
One thing you could do would be to look at 2E, where some of these PrC (actually many of them) originated, at least in mechanical form.
In 2E this was approached through kits and specialty wizards and clerics.
Kits were particular good for Fighters and Thieves, in their respective splat books. Basically just a sub-sub class. 2E had a full list of specialty wizards, and spheres for priests. The Priest splat book nerfed clerics pretty hard, but Faiths and Avatars, which was for FR, was supposed to be good.
Albiet, in none of these cases do you switch classes or branch out. Again thats the bard, thief acrobat, the OA examples you give, and sort of the heirophant druid.
In 2E this was approached through kits and specialty wizards and clerics.
Kits were particular good for Fighters and Thieves, in their respective splat books. Basically just a sub-sub class. 2E had a full list of specialty wizards, and spheres for priests. The Priest splat book nerfed clerics pretty hard, but Faiths and Avatars, which was for FR, was supposed to be good.
Albiet, in none of these cases do you switch classes or branch out. Again thats the bard, thief acrobat, the OA examples you give, and sort of the heirophant druid.
grodog
Hero
There were a number of specialty priests/priestesses defined for Greyhawk in the 2e era, both in official products (From the Ashes), as well as by fans (various priests from the Oerth Journal, etc.). Some were adapted/updated to 3.x in the Living Greyhawk Journal, too (Fred Weining's Old Lore Bard, IIRC). Canonfire's a good starting place to get input on this stuff (I don't know 2e well enough to be much help).
Also: don't forget to look at the "Deities & Demigods of Greyhawk" articles (in Dragon 67-71; reprinted in the 1983 boxed set sans illustrations), and the "Gods of the Suel Pantheon" (Dragons 86-90, 92); both series appear in the Dragon Archive too, of course). In those, instead of layering on a 2nd class, the priests of the GH gods pay a ~5-15% XP penalty and gain access to various powers that reflect the powers/capabilities of their deity. Speciality priests probably originated there, to some degree.
First time post on the forum! I'm so pleased to have found it.
Anyhow...
I pulled out the old Dragon magazines when my players started bellyaching about prestige classes. When I was young my DM allowed for the NPC classes, races and optional class/race rules found there (like Archer, different style Bards, Jester - a fav, half ogre, other rules for elves etc...) to be used with PCs. The best of Dragon series comes to mind.
Would that suffice for your players?
Anyhow...
I pulled out the old Dragon magazines when my players started bellyaching about prestige classes. When I was young my DM allowed for the NPC classes, races and optional class/race rules found there (like Archer, different style Bards, Jester - a fav, half ogre, other rules for elves etc...) to be used with PCs. The best of Dragon series comes to mind.
Would that suffice for your players?
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