Ginger-ism

billd91 · Jan 17, 2014

Zombie_Babies said:
My god, people. If that actually happens we're bleepin' doomed and it ain't cuz of the jokes.

On a certain level, those jokes may be innocuous. But they may also be revealing as well. Ethnic and other subgrouping jokes usually rest on some kind of stereotyping. It may be funny. It may be meant in just when someone asks "What's an Irish seven-course meal?" and answers "A potato and a six pack." But what prejudices and stereotypes does it rest on and, more importantly, transmit?

Check where these jokes tend to be or where they come from and other prejudices and animosities. There have been plenty of dumb Paddy jokes and ginger-bullying in the UK. Does it stem from or coincide with anti-Irish/anti-Celtic fringe prejudices? Probably. How about dumb Pollack jokes in German communities? Mexican/illegal immigrant jokes along the border states? Both probably come from the same sources as well. Does the source of JAP (Jewish American Princesses) jokes come from a well of anti-semitism? Maybe it does. Jokes about bad Asian drivers or Asian Fs on report cards (also known as a B+)? Do these stem from the insecurities of other competing communities in the multi-ethnic stew that is the United States? Maybe.

Morrus · Jan 17, 2014

Zombie_Babies said:
Meh, everyone gets picked on. I'm not a ginger and yet kids made fun of me. An excuse is an excuse and that's all 'ginger' is.

That's all *any* discrimination is, at its core. People bullying other people for being different. It has its roots in racism - anti-Irish sentiment, and the like - thought it's largely lost that connotation these days. Some of it's more epidemic than other stuff, but like I said - it's all matters of degrees. We just happen to be talking about the really low end.

Soulless? Yeah ... not buyin' it.

Well that bit's just the South Park thing, isn't it? I wasn't even aware of that aspect till this thread made me look it up.

Zombie_Babies · Jan 17, 2014

billd91 said:
On a certain level, those jokes may be innocuous. But they may also be revealing as well. Ethnic and other subgrouping jokes usually rest on some kind of stereotyping. It may be funny. It may be meant in just when someone asks "What's an Irish seven-course meal?" and answers "A potato and a six pack." But what prejudices and stereotypes does it rest on and, more importantly, transmit?

Check where these jokes tend to be or where they come from and other prejudices and animosities. There have been plenty of dumb Paddy jokes and ginger-bullying in the UK. Does it stem from or coincide with anti-Irish/anti-Celtic fringe prejudices? Probably. How about dumb Pollack jokes in German communities? Mexican/illegal immigrant jokes along the border states? Both probably come from the same sources as well. Does the source of JAP (Jewish American Princesses) jokes come from a well of anti-semitism? Maybe it does. Jokes about bad Asian drivers or Asian Fs on report cards (also known as a B+)? Do these stem from the insecurities of other competing communities in the multi-ethnic stew that is the United States? Maybe.

Where they come from and where they are are two different things. Nobody gave a poo about gingers over here (US) - there was no reason - and yet we joke about them today.

These type of jokes are ridiculous. I'm absolutely positive that there are mental midgets out there that really do think all Irishmen are drunks and all Irish women are baby factories. They're the vast minority, however. Most people understand that a joke is a joke.

EDIT: A lot of these jokes are old as hell. They come from a time long before real integration and stuff like the internet and air travel. Basically, it's pretty easy today to tell that something's a joke and not a serious attack on an entire people cuz when someone tells a dumb Pollock joke we can look to our Polish friend and remember how smart he is.

Zombie_Babies · Jan 17, 2014

Morrus said:
That's all *any* discrimination is, at its core. People bullying other people for being different. It has its roots in racism - anti-Irish sentiment, and the like - thought it's largely lost that connotation these days. Some of it's more epidemic than other stuff, but like I said - it's all matters of degrees. We just happen to be talking about the really low end.

Like I said, it's a personal issue with the word itself.

Well that bit's just the South Park thing, isn't it? I wasn't even aware of that aspect till this thread made me look it up.

And that's the aspect I'm familiar with, too. I honestly don't know any other gingerisms and I don't care. That's kind of the point: It's all incredibly silly.

trappedslider · Jan 17, 2014

French fry with ketchup on top, your mom bled when she gave birth to you and that's why your hair is red, carrot top and that's just the ones I remember getting tossed my way.

Bullgrit · Jan 17, 2014

Can a joke turn into real discrimination?

What if after years of supposedly innocuous ginger jokes, a society in which redheads were not thought of as anything unusual (like my section of the U.S.), starts producing kids turning into adults who now belittle and discriminate against redheads all because they learned through their culture that there's something bad-different about "gingers"?

Isn't this the reverse of what we're trying to do with other -isms? Making it unacceptable to joke/belittle people based on race or sex, etc. so people stop discriminating? If we can stop an -ism by stopping the jokes, can a real -ism start by allowing the jokes?

I just did a search through Google: "are blondes discriminated against". Interesting results.

Bullgrit

Dungeoneer · Jan 17, 2014

Zombie_Babies said:
I don't see it that way at all. I mean, look at how ridiculous this premise is: Hair color indicates intelligence.

<snip>

My god, people. If that actually happens we're bleepin' doomed and it ain't cuz of the jokes.

Well, one or two jokes are probably harmless, but if a redhead hears ginger jokes all the time, they are going to start to get annoyed by them, harmless or not. ALSO, while most of the people making the jokes will think that they are simply jokes, there will inevitably be one or two bigots who are serious and who will blow those jokes up into something far less innocent.

As always, context is king. If I have a redheaded friend who I know well, and who hasn't been the victim of 'gingerism', I may tease them about being a ginger if our relationship supports that. And it could be completely harmless. But joking about random redheads whose backgrounds I don't know is probably a bad idea. They may have encountered actual discrimination in the past and I would never want to be part of that. And there always seems to be that one guy who acts like he's joking but really he's not...

Dungeoneer · Jan 17, 2014

Bullgrit said:
I also grew up (and still live) in the U.S. Southeast. My best friend in high school was a redhead. The girl I took to my senior prom was redhead. The first girl I dated when I moved to my college town was redhead. There were no cultural issues with red hair, and "ginger" was some spice or something. I never heard any negative comments about redheads until these last few years.

Bullgrit

Oh cool, where are you from? I'm from Jacksonville, Florida. Born in Georgia.

Dungeoneer · Jan 17, 2014

Bullgrit said:
Can a joke turn into real discrimination?

What if after years of supposedly innocuous ginger jokes, a society in which redheads were not thought of as anything unusual (like my section of the U.S.), starts producing kids turning into adults who now belittle and discriminate against redheads all because they learned through their culture that there's something bad-different about "gingers"?

Isn't this the reverse of what we're trying to do with other -isms? Making it unacceptable to joke/belittle people based on race or sex, etc. so people stop discriminating? If we can stop an -ism by stopping the jokes, can a real -ism start by allowing the jokes?

I just did a search through Google: "are blondes discriminated against". Interesting results.

Bullgrit

It's all moot since blondes and redheads are going extinct.

Desdichado · Jan 17, 2014

Janx said:
I reckon we stopped telling blonde jokes when we figured out they were really saying "Blonde women are dumb"

Since that's sexist and starts us down the road of "all women are dumb", it became a taboo joke to tell.

Who's we? Blonde jokes are still pretty ubiquitous.

And no: blonde jokes say what they say. There is no hidden meaning of sexism behind it.

Ginger-ism

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)

Morrus

Well, that was fun

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