D&D 5E 5e Hobgoblin stat block

Kobold Stew · Jun 26, 2014

Thanks for posting this, Thaumaturge.

I'm very sorry to see the Charisma drop -- it's a pet peeve of mine, but it always feels cheap to me.

One of the consistent ways that evil humanoids are presented in D&D is with a low (sub-human) Charisma.

Bugbear Cha 9
Bullywug Cha 7
Goblin Cha 8
Gnoll Cha 8
Kobold Cha 8
Orc Cha 10
Orog Cha 10

(against the baseline of Human Commoner Cha 10).

All evil humanoids are consequently "dull and possibly uneasy", or not able "to interact with others well"? It's always bugged me. But then I had the Hobgoblin, which in the latest play test materials was

Hobgoblin Cha 13.

Hobgoblins could be confident, eloquent, and leaders. I'm sorry that's being taken away.

GX.Sigma · Jun 26, 2014

A heck of a step up from the early playtest days, where I ran a 1st-level party of complete newbies through the Caves of Chaos, and they massacred the entire hobgoblin complex in the first session. To this day, I don't think they even know that there are regular goblins, since their first "easy monster" was hobgoblins.

Kobold Stew said:
Hobgoblins could be confident, eloquent, and leaders. I'm sorry that's being taken away.

I think the idea is most hobgoblins are totally subservient to their superiors. Low charisma makes sense for a soldier. The captains or whatever probably have really good charisma.

Wolfskin · Jun 26, 2014

Updated statblock posted:

Kobold Stew · Jun 26, 2014

GX.Sigma said:
I think the idea is most hobgoblins are totally subservient to their superiors. Low charisma makes sense for a soldier. The captains or whatever probably have really good charisma.

And that's perfectly fine as an explanation for the stats (even if it differs from the play test). The point is that none of the default-generic evil humanoids are more self-respecting than a default human farmer. We continue to pay lip-service to "Charisma isn't prettiness", but there appears to be a (subconscious?) need to make non-human humanoids less charismatic than bog-standard humans.

Wolfskin · Jun 26, 2014

Kobold Stew said:
And that's perfectly fine as an explanation for the stats (even if it differs from the play test). The point is that none of the default-generic evil humanoids are more self-respecting than a default human farmer. We continue to pay lip-service to "Charisma isn't prettiness", but there appears to be a (subconscious?) need to make non-human humanoids less charismatic than bog-standard humans.

This may be because the measure of leadership for generic evil humanoids is "the ability to beat your equals into the ground until they submit to your rule". Perhaps Strength is the goblinoid's Charisma?

Kobold Stew · Jun 26, 2014

Wolfskin said:
This may be because the measure of leadership for generic evil humanoids is "the ability to beat your equals into the ground until they submit to your rule". Perhaps Strength is the goblinoid's Charisma?

And it is the undifferentiated, unimaginative application of this sort of answer to all races that I find uninspiring and mildly racist.

As I said originally, this is a pet peeve -- I don't expect it to be widely shared.

YRUSirius · Jun 26, 2014

But hobgoblins are still marauding rampaging bastards plundering villages and burning unicorns, right?

Savage Wombat · Jun 26, 2014

Observation - clearly hobgoblins are falconers. 1) Falcon flies adjacent to PC; 2) Hobgoblins shoot PC with longbows.

Wolfskin · Jun 26, 2014

Savage Wombat said:
Observation - clearly hobgoblins are falconers. 1) Falcon flies adjacent to PC; 2) Hobgoblins shoot PC with longbows.

From now on, every Hobgoblin will carry a bag of allied rats. Just in case,

evileeyore · Jun 26, 2014

Kobold Stew said:
And it is the undifferentiated, unimaginative application of this sort of answer to all races that I find uninspiring and mildly racist.

As I said originally, this is a pet peeve -- I don't expect it to be widely shared.

PREACH IT BROTHER!

Let our voices ring out from swamp to cave! Let them know we shall be held down no longer!

Yeah... I've never been fond of the "generic fantasy" treatment of 'humanoids' in most game systems, let alone the "color coded for your convenience" attitude of D&D.

D&D 5E 5e Hobgoblin stat block

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock

GX.Sigma

Adventurer

Wolfskin

Explorer

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock

Wolfskin

Explorer

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock

YRUSirius

First Post

Savage Wombat

Hero

Wolfskin

Explorer

evileeyore

Mrrrph

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