D&D 5E MM Excerpt: Bone Devil

Celebrim said:

That's a shame. (In case it isn't clear, that sounds sarcastic because it is.)

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My last post shows that I think you're making some assumptions that are untrue. If someone made things up on the fly to keep their precious plot in play, I'd leave that game in the middle of the session. It's not what I was saying, even a little bit.

So snark aside, I think we can agree on that point.

Agamon said:

I'm just saying that 5e has different parameters than earlier editions. The underlying assumptions are different. For example, one of the main ones is that combats go by more quickly than in 3e and 4e. It's almost pointless listing a whole bunch of abilities for a monster it'll likely not use.

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Sure, but what can we say about the likelihood of a creature using this ability or that? The very first bone devil I encountered as a player flew, turned invisible, nearly trapped my PC and another with a wall of ice, scared the wibblies out of us and fooled us with illusions. My DM at the time was the same age as me, fourteen. The bone devil was guarding a trophy room. The encounter took a week of game time to successfully resolve. It was one glorious summer afternoon of real time. That was my intro to D&D.

Ranes said:

And if bone devils could still create illusions, they could make things up on the fly.

Is that my coat?

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And if they could create object, they could make stuff while they're up flying.

Even a new coat.

steeldragons said:

I would similarly bet, that in addition to the descriptive text, there is a page somewhere that we haven't seen yet that talks about the magical abilities of "Lesser Devils" as the preview notes 5, I think, types lumped into the "Lesser Devil" umbrella. Why would they have done that if these 5 beings don't have collective traits? All of them probably have the same resitstances/immunities and limited list of possible spell-like powers. Listed once, somewhere, so as to be repeated 10 times.

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You would lose that bet.
Morrus confirmed it, there are extra pages about ecology etc. of devils, but no additional abilities. Clawing or poking is all bone devils can do unless you use a variant rule for devil summoning.
People wanted a simple edition and they got it.

Derren said:

You would lose that bet.
Morrus confirmed it, there are extra pages about ecology etc. of devils, but no additional abilities. Clawing or poking is all bone devils can do unless you use a variant rule for devil summoning.
People wanted a simple edition and they got it.

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There we go they have a variant rule for Devil Summoning.

Derren said:

You would lose that bet.
Morrus confirmed it, there are extra pages about ecology etc. of devils, but no additional abilities. Clawing or poking is all bone devils can do unless you use a variant rule for devil summoning.
People wanted a simple edition and they got it.

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That is disappointing to hear.

Well, nothing else to do about it then...lessee...

Lesser Devils
At will: Detect Magic, Detect Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Tongues, Minor Image, Produce Flame
+3 from the following list: Change Self; Invisibility; Fire Bolt or Ray of Frost; Darkness Sphere; Mirror Image; Levitate.
+1 of the following once per day: Wall of Fire or Ice, Fireball or Icestorm, Phantasmal Killer, Dimension Door, Major Image, Lightning Bolt

mhm..mhm..yep. All fixed. [EDIT: reviews. sees need to amend/stipulate times per day. added with emphasis /EDIT]

You know, Lair Actions could be used to pick up some of the missing abilities...

A Bone Devil's Lair
Frigid caverns and torture chambers either in the Nine Hells or near a portal to the Nine Hells, a bone devil's lair exudes a palpable malice. Various torture implements line the walls and deceased victims are bound to the cruel stone by cold iron manacles. Tomes of infernal law bound in hide of unknown creatures are pulled high on blood-stained desks. On the Nine Hells, such lairs often have Styx water running thru them and traces of Stygian black ice running thru the caverns.

Lair Actions
On initiative count 20 (losing any ties), the bone devil takes a lair action to cause one of the following effects; the devil cannot use the same effect two rounds in a row.

• The bone devil becomes invisible until making an attack.
• The bone devil gains truesight (to the extent of its lair) for a round as its eyes flash with hellish light. All creatures that do not avert their eyes must make a DC 13 Wisdom save or become frightened. Those who don't avert their eyes suffer disadvantage on all attacks against the bone devil.
• The bone devil conjures an effect equivalent to the casting of a wall of ice and major image, allowing the devil to create new walls as well as illusory ones, or to conceal hazards and traps.

Regional Effects
The region containing a bone devil's lair is warped by the devil's presence, which creates one or more of the following effects:

• Within 5 miles, damning secrets have a tendency to be exposed in the worst possible way, especially if it means someone currently innocent or on the path of redemption falls.
• Water sources within 1 mile turn black, and River Styx confluences may occur.
• All torture attempts are advantaged and yield especially excruciating results.

If the devil is killed or banished, these effects fade after 1d10 days.

Seems like quite a few monsters ended up being quite bland and too simplified for my taste. I just don't have time to tinker with them, adding abilities/powers to most critters in the book, so it's becoming more and more likely that I won't enjoy DMing Next.

Having said that, I think this is a good move on WotC's part, considering that easy-to-run monsters are better for newbies. Also, there may be variant rules/modules in DMG or some other supplement to make monsters more complex.

One more thing; there's something 5E has accomplished I thought would be nigh-impossible for WotC to achieve, considering all the previous editions of D&D. Namely, they really nailed it with the graphic design and art. The layout is well-designed; it supports colorful images and conveys all the necessary information without "getting in the way" or jumping at you. All the images are great and well, consistent (for the lack of a better term, since English is not my native language) with each other and faithful to the semi-realistic style they've chosen for Next. All of this means that their Art Directors have done a superb job with the books; IMO it's even better than what Sarah Robinson did with Pathfinder. And I'm saying this as a former professional AD and a PF fan.

My only gripe is with the book covers, which try too hard to evoke "old skool" vibes with that annoying font, weird ampersand-logo and the bright red "smudge" behind the logo. But that is a minor issue. If 5E books won't grab gold for art at ENnies next year, there's something horribly wrong with the world.

Nilbog said:

I have to agree with you here, I mentioned in a previous thread that one of the downsides I was seeing to 5e was that from a mechanically perspective the monsters teased so far don't seem very interesting, a lot of claw/claw/ bite + A.N Other stuff.

Hopefully not all monsters are like this, and some do have interesting abilities, one of 4e strengths (and 13th ages) was that it could make mundane monsters memorable by some of the abilities they had, turning bog standard encounters into things a little more memorable.

I know 5e is a rules framework looks like it is fairly easy to houserule/modify stuff, but I have enough on my DM's plate without having to tweak/rework the monsters prior to an encounter.

I know they are trying to complexity low, and I can't fault them for this however I don't believe that this means they can't make monsters interesting, the two aren't mutually exclusive

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Unfortunately, from what i've seen so far from every monster (including all dragons having identical legendary powers) that although WotC had the absolute ability to make monsters more differentiated with more shticks, they opted not to. At this point, i think the best recourse is for the fan base to make it known we want more options in the Monster Manual 2. The 13th Age ogre had this wonderful little ability where it could smack back anyone near it with a club. Stuff like that, just not a sack of hit points and a club. Sure, a DM could ad-hoc that, but why?

[EDIT2] Just cuz now it's been on my brain for a night, I'll keep rolling with this to have it done. Additions to Lesser Devils in red. Greater Devil material, normal. [/EDIT2]

steeldragons said:

That is disappointing to hear.

Well, nothing else to do about it then...lessee...

Lesser Devils
All Lesser Devils automatically: Detect Magic, Detect Invisibility, Tongues
At will, any 3 of the following: Detect Thoughts, Minor Image, Produce Flame, Cause Fear, Putrify Food/Water.
+3 from the following list: Change Self; Invisibility; Fire Bolt or Ray of Frost; Darkness Sphere; Mirror Image; Levitate; Heat/Chill Metal [doesn't work on cold iron]; Stinking Cloud
+1 of the following once per day: Wall of Fire or Ice, Fireball or Icestorm, Phantasmal Killer, Dimension Door, Major Image, Lightning Bolt

Resistances & Immunities:
Immunity to: non-magic weapons, silver/silvered weapons, enchantment/charm spells & effects, poison, natural fire, natural cold.
Resistance [Half Damage]: magical fire, magical cold, natural lightning
Full Damage: magic weapons, cold iron/cold iron weapons, magic force/energy (e.g. magic missile), magical lightning, acid

mhm..mhm..yep. All fixed. [EDIT: reviews. sees need to amend/stipulate times per day. added with emphasis /EDIT]

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Greater Devils (off the top of my head: Malebranche/"Horned", Ice and Pit Fiends...but there might be others I don't know/recall at the moment)
All Greater Devils automatically: Detect Magic, Detect Invisibility, Tongues, Cause Fear, Darkness Sphere, Detect Thoughts
At will, add any 3 of the following: Major Image, Produce Flame, Putrify Food/Water, Change Self, Invisibility, Fire Bolt or Ray of Frost, Mirror Image, Levitate, Heat/Chill Metal, Stinking Cloud, Dimension Door.
+3 from the following list, 3 times per day: Wall of Fire or Ice, Fireball or Icestorm, Phantasmal Killer, Lightning Bolt, Cure/Cause Disease, Dispel Magic, Locate/Obscure Object, Animate Dead, Cure/Cause Serious Wounds
Resistances & Immunities:
Immunity to: non-magic weapons, silver/silvered weapons, enchantment/charm spells & effects, illusion spells & effects, poison, natural and magical fire, natural and magical cold, natural lightning.
Resistance [Half Damage]: magical lightning, magic force/energy, acid
Full Damage: magic weapons, cold iron/cold iron weapons, spells and effects (as from magic items) that specifically deal with extra-planar beings and/or fiends of the lower planes specifically.

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This probably needs a spin off thread...