Thinking about picking up a guitar

Umbran · Sep 8, 2014

The first person that came to my mind here is [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] but anyone knowledgeable can chime in:

If one is thinking of taking up guitar, what should they consider for a first instrument? Either in terms of makes and models, or in terms of features. New or used, and all that....

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 8, 2014

Considerations:

1) acoustic or electric. If electric, playing with others or playing at home?

2) new or used?

3) willing to buy online or try before you buy in store?

4) budget?

5) does resale value matter?

6) where do you live (affects availability & price)?

7) messin' around or serious?

8) hierarchy of needs: comfort, quality, sound, brand name, style of music

There are other wrinkles, but those are the major issues when shopping. The first seven all are about narrowing the field and where to shop. The 8th is all about the specifics of finding the right guitar.

My personal take on 8 is comfort matters most, because if a guitar isn't comfortable, you won't practice/play enough to improve. Quality is next, because mechanical failures are just as discouraging as discomfort. (I personally HATE "starter" guitars, but they do fill a role.) in general, sound follows from quality, but not always. Brand is kind of a shopping guide- anyone can make a lemon or a gem, but some brands are more consistently good or bad than others.

Umbran · Sep 8, 2014

Dannyalcatraz said:
1) acoustic or electric. If electric, playing with others or playing at home?

I am willing to start with either. I recognize that if I really like it, I will eventually wind up with both. I have heard that most starters begin with acoustic, but that electric is somehow easier to learn on.

2) new or used?

I am open to either. I suspect that for a first, the better value would be used. I happen to walk past a used guitar store on my way to and from work, so used is convenient.

3) willing to buy online or try before you buy in store?

My brother (who is also a guitar player) has strongly encouraged me to at least get my hands on the thing before I buy it - per your point #8 below.

4) budget?

I am flexible. A couple/few hundred? More than that is probably a bit of a waste for a starter.

5) does resale value matter?

Nope.

6) where do you live (affects availability & price)?

Boston area.

7) messin' around or serious?

I would expect that my start is messin' around, but I am really hoping that it becomes a significant hobby of mine.

8) hierarchy of needs: comfort, quality, sound, brand name, style of music

My brother also noted the comfort bit strongly - if the guitar doesn't fit right, playing will be difficult. Difficult leads to frustrating leads to not practicing leads to not playing at all.

In terms of musical style - I will listen to and enjoy a wide variety, but I would expect my initial playing is apt to be in the folk and folky end of rock area (as opposed to, say, heavy metal).

Of course, I want the thing to sound good, but I don't expect to be giving concerts

Janx · Sep 8, 2014

Dannyalcatraz said:
Considerations:

1) acoustic or electric. If electric, playing with others or playing at home?

2) new or used?

3) willing to buy online or try before you buy in store?

4) budget?

5) does resale value matter?

6) where do you live (affects availability & price)?

7) messin' around or serious?

8) hierarchy of needs: comfort, quality, sound, brand name, style of music

There are other wrinkles, but those are the major issues when shopping. The first seven all are about narrowing the field and where to shop. The 8th is all about the specifics of finding the right guitar.

My personal take on 8 is comfort matters most, because if a guitar isn't comfortable, you won't practice/play enough to improve. Quality is next, because mechanical failures are just as discouraging as discomfort. (I personally HATE "starter" guitars, but they do fill a role.) in general, sound follows from quality, but not always. Brand is kind of a shopping guide- anyone can make a lemon or a gem, but some brands are more consistently good or bad than others.

I agree with Danny's assessment. A guitar with bad action, that's hard to play, is one that you won't pick up an practice with. Which in turn means you'll own a guitar, but won't play it. Thus wasting your money.

Now Danny's got a huge collection, I don't. And my recent robbery experience, had an interesting side effect. In May, my house got broken into for a smash and grab. They took my 2 best guitars, a Cort bass and an Ibanez RG470. Both were $350-400 guitars as purchased at Guitar Centaur. The Ibanez was used. These are not starter guitars, nor are they the bestest guitars (those kind can run $1k-2K).

The insurance company priced them, and valued them at more than I paid. Then the police found my guitars at a pawn shop and I got them back (didn't get the other stuff back).

The core lesson being, if you spend $300-500 on your guitar, it will hold its value. Less than that, it's a cheap guitar. More than that, and you've spent a crapton on something that may gather dust, rather than get played (which of course can be resold).

If you get an electric guitar, you'll need an Amp (not a big one), I prefer a distortion box of some kind. I started with a $40 pawn shop amp, then added a multi-FX pedal, then got a bigger amp and sold the smaller one.

You could get clever with a TonePort from Line6 which is an effect box you plug into your PC (which means you plug guitar into TonePort, TonePort into PC, and play/practice that way). Line6 has learning software to teach you songs that hook into it as well, so there's some extra benefits. Plus, this combination usually leads to playing with headphones, which means everybody wins

Janx · Sep 8, 2014

on " electric easier to learn on":
I assume its referring to Action. Action is the distance/effort to press the string to the fretboard. acoustics usually have a higher action, making it harder to fret the notes properly/quickly.

The plus side of an accoustic is that you don't need power, cables, amp, FX, etc.

The plus side of an electric is that you get to use an amp, FX, power etc.

Playing the Star Spangled Banner with the amp cranked to 11 on the 4th of July is powerful fun.

For your type of music, I'd normally assume an Acoustic would fit in. As the only piece of equipment you need, it keeps your investment smaller.

Try out different guitars, especially in different price ranges. You should notice a difference every hundred dollars or so...

Bring your brother. Let him tune the guitar while he tries it out. Then, when you pick it up to try it, it's already in tune. An out of tune guitar will make any random strumming you try sound like a bad guitar.

With the guitar in tune, give it a strum while not holding any strings down on the neck. This gives you a sense of what it sounds like, that you can compare to other guitars. Since you don't know any chords, this is the simplest way to hear the guitar's sound.

To see if you like the Action/picking, start with the fat string (on top), and use your index finger to hold down a string at a fret position (those little bars on the neck). Put your finger just behind the bar, not crossing over. Pick that string with your other hand (and a pick or your thumb). Now release that finger and move to the next fret position with the next finger, and repeat. Lather rinse repeat for your 4 fingers/4 frets. Then move to the next string down.

a) you'll look like you are playing a scale (a scale is actually that procedure, just not playing every position)
b) you'll hear the single notes it can produce
c) you'll get a sense of the action/ease of fingering.

Buy a guitar stand or a hard case to keep the guitar in/on. Friends who don't have a proper place to put their guitar get guitar stands from me on their birthdays.

Janx · Sep 8, 2014

Some thoughts on learning:

Around 2003 or so, I decided to pick up my wife's old electric that she had from high school from her Uncle the Musician and learn to play.

I googled and learned how to read Guitar Tab. Most lesson sites got too deep into music theory before getting into "here's how to play a song" which is a turn off for most beginners.

I found that the lessons on About.com were actually at the pace and direction I was interested, which was mainly how to play the dang thing and get to playing songs. The lessons are still there, but the links to the song Tabs are not working anymore due to politics. If you are looking to teach yourself, I'd go looking there.

I had no musical background, inkling or interest when I started. Since then, I've played in a community jazz band, learned to read sheet music, recorded an album. Not that I was good at it, but I did get from zero to good enough to do stuff. Set some easy goals to learn easy songs like GnR's Used to Love her (3 chords), Green Day, I'll Be Your Man (the Black Keys). Stuff with 3-4 chords, mostly repetitious and you'll be happy to have learned a song, and ready to take on a bit more challenge.

Getting an instructor can keep you on track better, but you got to get a guy who has the same goal as you do. A teacher who wants you to master Metallica isn't going to do well with a guy who wants to play folksy stuff.

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 8, 2014

Electrics are easier to learn on than acoustics (for most people) because they tend to have slenderer necks and lower action- the strings are closer to the fretboard. This means it takes less effort to fret a note, and chords are easier to reach. You can find nearly professional level electric guitars in the $500 range in the used market.

Acoustics are not quite as affordable. While there are some good acoustics under $300, most of what is in that price range will not be well made. Decent aoustics simply cost more to make- all that internal bracing, etc. takes time & effort to get right, and if you're cutting costs, it will usually be in terms of material and parts.

In Boston, you'll have access to most major brands.

Given your taste in music as a starting point, I'd probably opt to do what so many others have- myself included- and start with a steel-stringed acoustic. My first was a cheapie starter Alvarez that I literally destroyed in a year.

In acoustics I'd look at these brands:

Yamaha: I have a classical that was purchased new (years ago) for under $300. It is a well made nylon string that was GREAT as a learner's instrument. I'd expect similar bang for the buck from their steel string guitars.

Seagull: one of Godin's brands, they deliver a unique visual aesthetic and a LOT of quality for your money. The S6 is almost universally among the recommend guitars in the acoustic forums I frequent. Godin, a Canadian company, also makes highly-regarded electrics, as well as quality acoustics under a variety of names including Norman, Art & Lutherie, and Simon & Patrick.

Ovation: the most polarizing brand I recommend. They are polarizing because they have an inherently bright (trebly, chiming) tone that is not as "warm" as that delivered by traditional wooden guitars. Their shape & design almost demands use with a guitar strap- many of their designs feature man-made plastic bowl on the back that is slick. However, that same bowl contributes to excellent sound projection and durability. Ovations are harder to kill than vampires. Their necks are VERY similar to those found on electrics, and also have excellent on-board electronics- two features that make them insanely popular with guys who are primarily electric guitarists wanting to go unplugged.

Depending on your budget and what is available new/used, other good brands you should see plenty of include Alvarez, Breedlove, Taylor, Takamine and the Cadillac of American Luthierie, C.F. Martin. You will also see acoustics from almost every major electric brand: Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Dean, etc. all make them, but they're going to be hit or miss. Likewise for store brands like Luna.

Also, if you see a used Tacoma, give it a play. I love them- own one, looking for more. Once, they were INCREDIBLE value for money, often touted as playing and sounding like guitars many times their price. But they got bought out by Fender and discontinued so that they would not compete with Fender's own acoustic line. (Dumbasses.)

Generally, you're looking for solid wood back & sides- top too, of you can- as opposed to laminates. They generally sound better. You want a straight neck- obviously- and the fret ends should be polished and flush with the sides of the fretboard or neck to prevent the frets from tearing up your hands. Binding on the fretboard does the same job- it's not just decorative!

My personal taste runs to the single-cutaway for better upper-fret access.

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 8, 2014

Janx said:
Getting an instructor can keep you on track better, but you got to get a guy who has the same goal as you do. A teacher who wants you to master Metallica isn't going to do well with a guy who wants to play folksy stuff.

Yes, yes, yes!

I started out by myself- I was a cellist first, so I figured I could self-teach, no problem. But I found that I hit a wall and developed many bad habits detrimental to both my playing and the care of my instrument.

My teacher helped me unlearn those habits, and gave me the mental tools to work with to continue learning long after I wasn't taking lessons anymore.

He was a professional gigging musician who had to play competently in a variety of styles, so lessons covered classical, jazz, blues, folk, early/classic rock and a smattering of country.

Janx · Sep 8, 2014

Dannyalcatraz said:
Yes, yes, yes!

I started out by myself- I was a cellist first, so I figured I could self-teach, no problem. But I found that I hit a wall and developed many bad habits detrimental to both my playing and the care of my instrument.

My teacher helped me unlearn those habits, and gave me the mental tools to work with to continue learning long after I wasn't taking lessons anymore.

He was a professional gigging musician who had to play competently in a variety of styles, so lessons covered classical, jazz, blues, folk, early/classic rock and a smattering of country.

That's an excellent point I neglected. Bad habit prevention/negation. I probably do some stuff wrong because I skipped having a formal teacher. One important aspect of this is certain techniques if learned wrong can be harder on your hand/wrist than if learned correctly. A self taught could be learning himself into a problem.

Umbran · Sep 8, 2014

Janx said:
The core lesson being, if you spend $300-500 on your guitar, it will hold its value. Less than that, it's a cheap guitar. More than that, and you've spent a crapton on something that may gather dust, rather than get played (which of course can be resold).

This sounds like a good note to remember.

You could get clever with a TonePort from Line6 which is an effect box you plug into your PC (which means you plug guitar into TonePort, TonePort into PC, and play/practice that way). Line6 has learning software to teach you songs that hook into it as well, so there's some extra benefits. Plus, this combination usually leads to playing with headphones, which means everybody wins

Hm. That does sounds clever.

Janx said:
For your type of music, I'd normally assume an Acoustic would fit in. As the only piece of equipment you need, it keeps your investment smaller.

That's my first instinct as well, though. I am keeping myself open to either largely for two points:

1) If I go used, my local selection may be a bit limited.

2) Following the comfort line that folks are all agreeing with - I'd prefer an electric that feels good to the hand over an acoustic that doesn't, even if it costs a bit more.

Bring your brother.

I wish I could. Alas, I am in Boston, and he's down south. This is part of why I ask many questions

Let him tune the guitar while he tries it out. Then, when you pick it up to try it, it's already in tune. An out of tune guitar will make any random strumming you try sound like a bad guitar.

The one thing I have going for me in this is a good, somewhat trained ear. It seems to run in the family. One of my brothers was a vocalist with perfect pitch. The other plays guitar and violin. I've done a significant amount of choral and musical theater work in the past, and have demonstrated the ability to tell when a guitar or piano is out of tune, and to gauge some of the tonal qualities of guitars even when they are out of tune.

Worst come to worst, I can get a tuning app for my phone, and use it to tune a guitar in-store, if need be.

With the guitar in tune, give it a strum while not holding any strings down on the neck. This gives you a sense of what it sounds like, that you can compare to other guitars. Since you don't know any chords, this is the simplest way to hear the guitar's sound.

To see if you like the Action/picking, start with the fat string (on top), and use your index finger to hold down a string at a fret position (those little bars on the neck). Put your finger just behind the bar, not crossing over. Pick that string with your other hand (and a pick or your thumb). Now release that finger and move to the next fret position with the next finger, and repeat. Lather rinse repeat for your 4 fingers/4 frets. Then move to the next string down.

a) you'll look like you are playing a scale (a scale is actually that procedure, just not playing every position)
b) you'll hear the single notes it can produce
c) you'll get a sense of the action/ease of fingering.

This sounds like excellent practical advice, and I'm gong to stick it right alongside the "how to tell if the neck is bent/warped" and some of the basic information on fitting my fingering hand my brother game me. Thank you!

Janx said:
I googled and learned how to read Guitar Tab. Most lesson sites got too deep into music theory before getting into "here's how to play a song" which is a turn off for most beginners.

I found that the lessons on About.com were actually at the pace and direction I was interested, which was mainly how to play the dang thing and get to playing songs. The lessons are still there, but the links to the song Tabs are not working anymore due to politics. If you are looking to teach yourself, I'd go looking there.

Noted.

Set some easy goals to learn easy songs like GnR's Used to Love her (3 chords), Green Day, I'll Be Your Man (the Black Keys). Stuff with 3-4 chords, mostly repetitious and you'll be happy to have learned a song, and ready to take on a bit more challenge.

Yeah, this was my hope as well - the rock/folk area has *tons* of songs that can be done with 3 or 4 chords. Learning them in basic form becomes good exercise for the hands and ear, and hey, you can play a song! That can carry you a long way while you're trying to learn more theory and detailed skills.

Getting an instructor can keep you on track better, but you got to get a guy who has the same goal as you do. A teacher who wants you to master Metallica isn't going to do well with a guy who wants to play folksy stuff.

Yah. And teaching style on an instructor also matters.