D&D 5E Which options for an EK bladesinger?

steeldragons · Oct 24, 2014

DEFCON 1 said:
Yeah... I really do like the idea of Magic Initiate because having 5 cantrips allows me more utility spell options. I can take a pair of combat spells-- one ranged like Ray of Frost, one close-quarters like Shocking Grasp, then still have space to take things like Blade Ward for defense, and Mage Hand and Mending (or whatever) for utility. The big conundrum though is the 1st level spell-- since that is one I never get to change out of, and only gets cast once per long rest... I'd ideally not want to use it for something like Shield because I'd still have to take Shield as one of my EK spells (cause I know I'd need to probably use it more than once.) But that just seems like a waste of known spells, doubling up like that. Mage Armor at least was a full eight hours, so using that once per day in that slot seemed to make the most sense. I'd really need to comb through the 1st level Wizard spell list to find a spell that I wouldn't want to use more than once (because I'd rather use an EK known spell slot for that) but at the same time would use it often enough to actually make that known spell useful. Ugh.

I almost feel like I should take Resilient as my feat just to save myself the agony of making that irrevocable choice now, before I've had a chance to play the character. Maybe at 6th level, once I've seen the character in action and I get a better sense of what spell I find myself only needing/using once per long rest... then I can pick that up with Magic Initiate and swap out the EK known version to another spell at that point. Because at least I *know* that Resilient is 100% useful to me right at the top.

Decisions, decisions. Thanks folks for your input!

The idea of a bladesinger in a climactic battle [presumably not occurring more than once per day], swiping with their blade to release a blast of arcane devastation before closing to finish the job with cold steel is, fairly, quintessential to my fluff/conception of the class. Burning Hands or Magic Missile [why not three individual bolts of energy being flung from the blade?...which always hit their intended targets!]

Work off the character concept...the image...not the "build." Should I take Shield or not, because a "point" of AC is so going to alter/make/break my concept of this character? Nah.

Rule of cool, man. Go for the cool imagery before "1 point here, 1 point there, is going to somehow make my character 'better'."

Joe Liker · Oct 24, 2014

DEFCON 1 said:
The big conundrum though is the 1st level spell-- since that is one I never get to change out of, and only gets cast once per long rest... I'd ideally not want to use it for something like Shield because I'd still have to take Shield as one of my EK spells (cause I know I'd need to probably use it more than once.) But that just seems like a waste of known spells, doubling up like that. Mage Armor at least was a full eight hours, so using that once per day in that slot seemed to make the most sense. I'd really need to comb through the 1st level Wizard spell list to find a spell that I wouldn't want to use more than once (because I'd rather use an EK known spell slot for that) but at the same time would use it often enough to actually make that known spell useful. Ugh.

Tasha's hideous laughter. It's flavorful, it's useful in a variety of situations, and it doesn't scale up. And it's OK that you only get it once per day because if you used it all the time, you'd start feeling a bit like a one-trick pony.

steeldragons · Oct 24, 2014

Joe Liker said:
Tasha's hideous laughter. It's flavorful, it's useful in a variety of situations, and it doesn't scale up. And it's OK that you only get it once per day because if you used it all the time, you'd start feeling a bit like a one-trick pony.

Tasha's HL is an enchantment spell. EK's are only allowed to take abjurations or evocations. So, while I get your point about flavorful/multi-situational spells, and it is well taken, the EK is sort of geared toward being a 2-trick pony, anyway: blast'em or defend'em.

That said, Thunderwave allows for some "pushing" on a failed save, so that could prove useful in various situations. Slamming the sword butt on the ground or simply invoking the thunderous soundwaves with a pass of the blade? Yeah, I can see it.

Chromatic Orb is evocation and gives you the means to alter damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison or thunder, with each attack, as needed/you choose. I'm seeing all kinds of useful applications for that. [EDIT for afterthought] For "I've got a spell for that" usefulness in battle -and other situations- Need to dissolve that lock on the prison gate? Start a fire? Cold for fire-resistant/immune creatures and vice versa. Poison your blade for creatures immune to everything. Thunder again, I think, gives you some pushing...I can't think of a more versatile 1st level damage-dealing spell.[/EDIT]

Joe Liker · Oct 24, 2014

steeldragons said:
Tasha's HL is an enchantment spell. EK's are only allowed to take abjurations or evocations. So, while I get your point about flavorful/multi-situational spells, and it is well taken, the EK is sort of geared toward being a 2-trick pony, anyway: blast'em or defend'em.[/EDIT]

Nope, you can take any 1st-level wizard spell you want with the Magic Initiate feat, and that's what DEFCON was having trouble deciding in the post I quoted.

In fact, considering what you've just pointed out, Tasha's hideous laughter is an even better choice because it will be much harder to come by naturally.

steeldragons · Oct 24, 2014

So you can. Hadn't noticed that...and the "specific outweighs the general" overrule would seem to apply. Nice trick.

I retraact my previous post. Pick whatever spell you want.

77IM · Oct 24, 2014

1. Mage Armor, and like you said, when you find that suit of magic studded leather you can swap out mage armor for some other spell.
2. Dueling style, and carry a shield. The +1 AC from defense style is a trap compared to +2 AC from a shield and +2 damage from dueling style.
3. War Caster so that you can cast spells with your hands full. Advantage on concentration checks is pretty nice too.

Prism · Oct 24, 2014

steeldragons said:
Tasha's HL is an enchantment spell. EK's are only allowed to take abjurations or evocations. So, while I get your point about flavorful/multi-situational spells, and it is well taken, the EK is sort of geared toward being a 2-trick pony, anyway: blast'em or defend'em..[/EDIT]

They can take spells from other schools at certain levels so Tasha's would be an ok spell to take

Runny · Oct 28, 2014

Willing to take cleric spells? Bless is fantastic.

DEFCON 1 · Oct 28, 2014

Runny said:
Willing to take cleric spells? Bless is fantastic.

Most likely no (despite the power of Bless). Bladesinger is a fighter/mage, so I'd want to stay consistent to the theme if I took the Magic Initiate feat. Plus, I'd expect my WIS to be pretty bad, meaning that none of the cantrips and the spell I took could require an attack roll or need a save without it really sucking.

Another case of desirable fluff overriding mechanics.

Blackbrrd · Oct 28, 2014

I think getting your dex up to 18 is the best use of the level 4 feature. +1 to hit, damage, AC, Dex save, initiative and a bunch of skills is pretty darned good.

If you have 17 starting dex, you could take the Resilient feat for +1dex and proficiency with dex saves, or +2 to dex, or +1 to dex and +1 to another stat. For instance con if you have an odd con score, or int.