D&D 5E Which options for an EK bladesinger?

[DEFCON 1]

I find myself in a very intriguing character build situation, where I am putting together a 4th level high elf Eldritch Knight whose fluff is that he is a Bladesinger. So he's a Fighter that has some spellcasting at his disposal (mainly for defensive spells and perhaps an AoE attack spell.) I have found though that at several decision points there are mechanically two seemingly equal choices that I need to figure out what would work best (from both a resulting numbers standpoint as well as a fluff standpoint, as I care about both.) These decision points were interesting enough to me that I was curious what the rest of you would decide on if given the same situation? Basically, what mechanical decisions give you more pleasing results in an effort to build an EK Bladesinger for yourself?

Here are the several forks in my possible design:

Studded Leather vs. Mage Armor

SL is AC 12 while MA is AC 13 so I gain a point of always-on AC while losing a spell slot with Mage Armor. On the SL side, that spell slot could be used for the casting of Shield, which could potentially cover a couple big hits. I could also eventually find magical studded leather, which would raise my base AC equal to and eventually above what I'd get with Mage Armor. But on the MA side, the one extra always-on AC point is big (big enough that there's an entire Fighting Style dedicated to it), and fluff-wise I really like the idea of a bladesinger being "armor-less" as opposed to wearing armor. I also can always change out of the MA spell at a later point when I level up should I find that set of magical studded leather.

Defense vs Dueling fighting style

Defense gives me a +1 to AC while Dueling gives a +2 to damage. This becomes more interesting when it is bundled with the fork above-- do you take Defense if you wear SL to offset that lost point of AC (and conversely if you use MA do you take Dueling because you already have that AC point?) Do you take Defense *and* MA to give you an AC two points higher for a more full-defensive bladesinger? Or do I go more offensive by taking SL and Dueling for the extra damage and the extra spell slot? Fluff-wise, as I am an elf I would be high DEX and thus would wield a Finesse blade (IE rapier)... meaning that the extra 2 points of damage from Duelist would help offset my lower damage die, making me feel a bit stronger of a swordsman.

If we assume a DEX of 17 (+3) plus using a Finesse weapon, that would give us:

SL + Defense: AC 16, Attack +5, Damage +3, 3 1st-level spell slots remaining
SL + Dueling: AC 15, Attack +5, Damage +5, 3 1st-level spell slots remaining
MA + Defense: AC 17, Attack +5, Damage +3, 2 1st-level spell slots remaining
MA + Dueling: AC 16, Attack +5, Damage +5, 2 1st-level spell slots remaining

Small differences, but very varied results.

Defensive Duelist vs Magic Initiate vs Resilient for my feat

DD gives me a +2 (prof bonus) to my AC by using my Reaction. Magic Initiate gives me two more cantrips and a 1st level spell slot. Resilient gives me a +1 to my DEX making it an 18, and proficiency in my DEX saves (of which I otherwise have STR and CON because I'm a Fighter).

The advantage of DD is that it props my AC up two full points during those attacks that are really close, thereby saving me my spell slots by not needing to cast Shield instead. This could be a good way to keep my AC up while allowing me to take the Dueling style for the extra damage (and save my spell slots for other times when there's a wider swing and Shield would be used, or allow me more offensive/utility casting.)

The advantage of Magic Initiate (Wizard) is that it will give me a total of 5 cantrips (two for EK, 1 for high elf, 2 for MI) allowing me many more options for magical offense, defense and utility, plus I could use that free 1st level slot to power my Mage Armor if I wanted, thereby eliminating one of the downsides in the SL vs MA question.

The advantage of Resilient being that it gets my DEX to 18 and now a +4 modifier at the start of the campaign, which gives me a +1 to my AC, attack, damage, and DEX-based skills (and a +3 to my DEX-based saves).

Admittedly, this one seems much more like a no-brainer-- taking Resilient and starting with an 18 DEX rather than a 17 gives much more benefit right out of the gate. Besides which, as a Fighter, I'll be getting my next feat selection in two levels at 6th anyway, which means I could take either DD or MI then if I really wanted (assuming of course I decided not to just bump up straight to DEX 20.)

So given the decision points above... what would be your preferred build to make a high elf eldritch knight bladesinger character? (And PS - I know the other class options like valor bard or blade warlock are out there, but I'm sticking with EK for my bladesinger, so you don't need to offer those ideas instead. Thanks!)

 

[Kai Wren]

Personally, I'd take studded leather over mage armor because I feel like wearing some armor is more 'warrior wizard' than foregoing armor entirely - you say you prefer the other mental image, sooo... in that case, I'd go with the mage armor. It isn't a huge difference, really.

I would definitely take dueling as the fighting style, because the extra damage is juicy and if you're tying up a spell slot with mage armor, you're going to want a very solid bread and butter to fall back on. I also think this works nicely as a concept - you don't seem to be wearing any armor at all, and as a duelist you can settle things 'honorably'. I like that.

Resilience is also definitely where I'd go to round it out. 18 dex is a nice big boost, and it comes with dex save proficiency - which is great for everyone, but fighters especially as you tend to be the centre point for enemy AoEs. At 6th, I'd probably be tempted to go for Magic Initiate for the extra spells. I think Defensive Duelist is nice, but when you can replicate it a limited number of times per day with Shield anyway... I wouldn't personally give up the feat slot for it. Magic Initiate helps you emphasize your 'special flavor' a great deal and as you level up you're likely to find you have enough low level spell slots to feed Shield when you need it anyway.

 

[Nachti]

SL vs MA

As a fighter you have profiency with all kinds of armor, so why not use a Plate (AC 18)?

Especially if you still need some levels to gain 20 dex for a +5 AC boni.

If you dont like using a plate armor then stick on mage armor.
I think even +1 to any combat state should never be ignored.

Defense vs Dueling

As a fighter/mage you wil have quite an array of defensive spells, so improve your offensive capacity.

Feats

Oh interesting. Defensive Duelist makes the Shield spell opsolete....for one attack....hmm... I would stick with shield spell. Haste offers prof in dex saves.

I would go for
- Warcaster (con advantage, reaction cast)
- Mage Slayer

Side note

Why not go two weapon fighting? Its better then dueling style and by taking Dual Wielder Feat you get another +1 AC.

 

[Joe Liker]

Fluffwise, I think you made the right choice in going EK. The other classes you mentioned might come close-ish, but EK seems like it was intended to cover that Bladesinger niche. It just captures the flavor so well!

It's tempting to go with mage armor, but I feel like that's taking the fluff train one stop too far. You'll still look quite dashing in your studded, and while its fun to imagine using magic to deflect all those attacks, mage armor is a lot more cumbersome, buildwise, than it's worth.

To me, a bladesinger is much more about offense than defense, so Dueling fighting style all the way. No doubt in my mind, here.

As for the feat, have you considered Spell Sniper? You still get one extra cantrip, and the extra range is a lot more useful than you might think -- unless your DM favors tiny maps and close quarters. (Even if that's the case, people with this feat should press the issue and back up off the map if need be. The DM should get the hint.)

But choosing from the feats you listed, I'd have to say Magic Initiate, except reserve the free spell slot for an extra shield, not mage armor. Knowing a wide variety of cantrips is an important part of the bladesinger flavor. Take Resilient as your second feat.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Because of math, AC is worth more as you stack it. Either go (Mage Armor + Defense + Resilient) for maximum AC, or go (Mage Armor + Dueling + Resilient) for maximum offense.

Seriously, you get nothing out of those other options.

 

[Mirtek]

MA plus defense doesnt work. Defense works only when wearing armor.

I would still consider two levels of warlock for at will mage armor even if you go EK for the rest

 

[The Crimson Binome]

MA plus defense doesnt work. Defense works only when wearing armor.

A fair point, as this is currently open to interpretation, and any given DM might rule that Mage Armor isn't armor.

 

[Paraxis]

I would still consider two levels of warlock for at will mage armor even if you go EK for the rest

1 level of sorcerer will do the same, dragon bloodline gives you AC of 13+dex, and energy resistance. Not to mention 4 cantrips, 2 spells known and 2 extra spells per day.

 

[steeldragons]

Studded Leather. Defense. Magic initiate to total 5 cantrips, 3 1st level.

When you want to hit hard, use magic.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. Opinions look like it really comes down to preferring either "full offense" or "full defense", which I have to say does make a lot of sense. Especially considering that I'll have all my spells to shore up the other side of the equation (using more Shields on a "full offense" build, or more spell damage with a "full defense" one.) Many other good points were made, so let me just expound a bit on some of them and why I probably would or would not go in those directions.

SL vs MA As a fighter you have profiency with all kinds of armor, so why not use a Plate (AC 18)?

On a normal EK this would make a lot of sense, but with my high elf DEX build, I'm not going to have the STR score required to wear the heavy armors. So I'm pretty much stuck with light armor all the way.

Why not go two weapon fighting? Its better then dueling style and by taking Dual Wielder Feat you get another +1 AC.

Thought about it, actually... but knowing that I most likely wouldn't take Warcaster as my initial feat (because I don't expect to have any spells right away that will require concentration), I'd need one hand free to cast the spells I did have. So it was either dual-wield *and* Warcaster, or single wield and cast spells without worrying about drawing/sheathing. And truth be told... fluff-wise the bladesinger always struck me more as a kensai type of concept, where it's the elf and his blade as one being... which to me feels like dual-wielding kinda goes against that. But I did definitely have that option in my head at one point.

Personally, I'd take studded leather over mage armor because I feel like wearing some armor is more 'warrior wizard' than foregoing armor entirely.

It's tempting to go with mage armor, but I feel like that's taking the fluff train one stop too far. You'll still look quite dashing in your studded, and while its fun to imagine using magic to deflect all those attacks, mage armor is a lot more cumbersome, buildwise, than it's worth.

These are both very valid points. I think fluff-wise the reason why I kept thinking "no armor" was because traditionally the fighter/made wasn't *allowed* to wear armor in order to cast, at least until a set of elven chain could be found. Once he got the elven chain though... wearing armor was fine. So using any armor that is allowable to cast in really shouldn't be an issue if I really thought about it. And going the SL route does save me the spell slot.

Because of math, AC is worth more as you stack it. Either go (Mage Armor + Defense + Resilient) for maximum AC

MA plus defense doesnt work. Defense works only when wearing armor.

Egads, I forgot about that. Yeah, I'm definitely in the camp that says Mage Armor isn't armor in the traditional sense, and thus something like Defense not being allowed with MA is a ruling I'd agree with. Which means the really high AC 18 build doesn't fly. Another reason to go with the Studded Leather option.

I would still consider two levels of warlock for at will mage armor even if you go EK for the rest

1 level of sorcerer will do the same, dragon bloodline gives you AC of 13+dex, and energy resistance. Not to mention 4 cantrips, 2 spells known and 2 extra spells per day.

In both these cases, my adhering-to-fluff biases shine through and make me not want to multi-class into those two just for the mechanical benefit. This is just one of my particular picadillos-- both the warlock and the sorcerer have very specific fluff to them and I'd hate to white-wash that fluff away just to gain Mage Armor. Their fluff is just too cool to ignore (since it doesn't really fit my character's fluff concept). I wouldn't mind re-fluffing the Core Four occasionally (since they're the baseline classes wherein its kind of expected)... but to take warlock without doing anything with the pact or sorcerer and completely ignoring the draconic origin just makes me go 'blech'. But that's just my own biases being highlighted.

Studded Leather. Defense. Magic initiate to total 5 cantrips, 3 1st level.

But choosing from the feats you listed, I'd have to say Magic Initiate, except reserve the free spell slot for an extra shield, not mage armor. Knowing a wide variety of cantrips is an important part of the bladesinger flavor. Take Resilient as your second feat.

Yeah... I really do like the idea of Magic Initiate because having 5 cantrips allows me more utility spell options. I can take a pair of combat spells-- one ranged like Ray of Frost, one close-quarters like Shocking Grasp, then still have space to take things like Blade Ward for defense, and Mage Hand and Mending (or whatever) for utility. The big conundrum though is the 1st level spell-- since that is one I never get to change out of, and only gets cast once per long rest... I'd ideally not want to use it for something like Shield because I'd still have to take Shield as one of my EK spells (cause I know I'd need to probably use it more than once.) But that just seems like a waste of known spells, doubling up like that. Mage Armor at least was a full eight hours, so using that once per day in that slot seemed to make the most sense. I'd really need to comb through the 1st level Wizard spell list to find a spell that I wouldn't want to use more than once (because I'd rather use an EK known spell slot for that) but at the same time would use it often enough to actually make that known spell useful. Ugh.

I almost feel like I should take Resilient as my feat just to save myself the agony of making that irrevocable choice now, before I've had a chance to play the character. Maybe at 6th level, once I've seen the character in action and I get a better sense of what spell I find myself only needing/using once per long rest... then I can pick that up with Magic Initiate and swap out the EK known version to another spell at that point. Because at least I *know* that Resilient is 100% useful to me right at the top.

Decisions, decisions. Thanks folks for your input!