Doctor Who s8e10 - "Dark Water" [spoilers]

Janx · Nov 2, 2014

delericho said:
There's an assumption there that this is the 18th incarnation of the Master (John Simm being the 17th). Given Moffat's love of timey-wimey stuff, this could very well be setting up for some future tragedy where the Doctor encounters the 'missing link' Master and does leave him for dead, thus effectively un-redeeming Missy.

Or it could be another plot by Rassilon - they captured the Master, tampered with his memory, forced a regeneration, and sent her back with another plan to free the council from their prison.

Or it could be simply what Morrus says: she's mad.

Here's a nugget of an idea. You say the Master's on Regen 18 or so. And he's evil nuts mad.

Dr. Who is now on #13, and he's been a little "off"

What if the 12 regen limit isn't a limit, but a warning. Timelords past their 12 regen shelf-life start to go sour.

delericho · Nov 2, 2014

Janx said:
Here's a nugget of an idea. You say the Master's on Regen 18 or so. And he's evil nuts mad.

Dr. Who is now on #13, and he's been a little "off"

What if the 12 regen limit isn't a limit, but a warning. Timelords past their 12 regen shelf-life start to go sour.

As an idea, I like it. But I can't see them going that route, because that means that the long-term future of the show would involve the main character becoming progressively more and more insane. Given the lukewarm response to Capaldi's "slightly off" Doctor, and the outright rejection of Colin Baker's unstable Sixth Doctor, I would be surprised if they wanted to follow that path.

I would expect the next incarnation to be back to being a much more friendly Doctor, probably a lot younger, and quite possibly something other than white male. Oh, and I don't expect to wait very much longer for it to happen - even a regen in the Christmas episode wouldn't shock me at this point.

Janx · Nov 2, 2014

delericho said:
As an idea, I like it. But I can't see them going that route, because that means that the long-term future of the show would involve the main character becoming progressively more and more insane. Given the lukewarm response to Capaldi's "slightly off" Doctor, and the outright rejection of Colin Baker's unstable Sixth Doctor, I would be surprised if they wanted to follow that path.

I would expect the next incarnation to be back to being a much more friendly Doctor, probably a lot younger, and quite possibly something other than white male. Oh, and I don't expect to wait very much longer for it to happen - even a regen in the Christmas episode wouldn't shock me at this point.

I agree, from a logistics standpoint, it would destroy the show if the doctors got worse...

The sad thing, is Capaldi really wanted to be The Doctor, and they've kind of put him into a corner in this season. I'm not sure people are likely this season as much because of the way he's written to be an arse.

MarkB · Nov 2, 2014

Janx said:
I got no clue who Rassilon is, but I saw the Master die in Tenant's arms.

I'm guessing you missed the "End of Time" episodes that led up to Tennant's regeneration, then.

Moffat should have stayed dead, and they re-used one of those other female timelord villains old-timers mentioned in other threads.

There was only one Time Lady villain that I'm aware of. The Rani featured in two stories plus one ridiculous Children in Need fiasco, and never got much traction as a villain even amongst the serious fandom.

I'm not quite sure of what the 3W operation is about. Missy's making ghost cybermen, why? She's making them from volunteers (given that it's obvious what will happen if Mickey, I mean Danny pushes the button).

Unless something double-weird is going on, if the dead really are tied to their body, this may be a hook to the last Torchwood series where people weren't dying, including if really horrible stuff happened to their bodies. Thus, in similar (but different) fashion, Danny's link to his disemBody is continuation of that concept.

I think this is different - my guess is that Missy selected specific individuals to upload to the Nethersphere, and that the link to their bodies is part of the process. She's selecting people based upon how easy it would be to torment them into giving up their emotions.

In other thoughts, it is strange that Danny can't think of anything else to say about Claire to prove he's really him, except the one thing he didn't get to say when Claire asked him in the beginning of the episode and he was hit by a car.

Danny didn't want to prove he was for real, because he didn't want Clara to get herself killed (literally) to come after him.

delericho · Nov 2, 2014

MarkB said:
There was only one Time Lady villain that I'm aware of. The Rani featured in two stories plus one ridiculous Children in Need fiasco, and never got much traction as a villain even amongst the serious fandom.

Yep. As I understand it, there was at least one more story planned that would have featured the Rani, but the show was cancelled before they got there. I'm inclined to agree with the comment about traction - the concept for the character was quite good, and it was nice to have a Time Lord villain other than the Master, but it never quite worked. Possibly because Colin Baker's Doctor never quite got traction, affecting her first appearance, while the second was during McCoy's 'regeneration' story.

Plane Sailing · Nov 2, 2014

MarkB said:
Danny didn't want to prove he was for real, because he didn't want Clara to get herself killed (literally) to come after him.

I thought this was a touching reflection of his character

Plane Sailing · Nov 2, 2014

Janx said:
Moffat should have stayed dead.

Oh, a bit harsh, don't you think ?

Jester David · Nov 2, 2014

Because of the trailers, I knew Cybermen were involved. But the eye symbol thing was still a nice nod. I wasn't sure if they were going to be THE threat or just as a side villain, only semi-related to the main problem, like the dalek in Big Bang 2.

The Missy surprise was neat, in a Twist! kinda way. Honestly, while I was initially "whoa" from the Master revelation, I was much more excited about the possibilities prior to the revelation. There were so many female Time Lords it also could have been. I was rattling off the list: Romana, The Rani, Susan, the Doctor's daughter. When it was revealed to be a gender reversed Master it was almost a let down that it wasn't someone else.

Which is interesting. There are three male Name timelords: the Doctor, the Master, the Meddling Monk. And then there are at least an equal number of Time Lady's we've seen.

Morrus · Nov 2, 2014

delericho said:
I would expect the next incarnation to be back to being a much more friendly Doctor, probably a lot younger, and quite possibly something other than white male. Oh, and I don't expect to wait very much longer for it to happen - even a regen in the Christmas episode wouldn't shock me at this point.

Paterson Joseph. I've been waiting for that for years!