D&D 5E Low Level Wizards Really Do Suck in 5E

Dessert Nomad · Jan 11, 2019

Maxperson said:
Further, dex was important to to wizards to help them stay alive, so it wasn't unusual to have an attack adjustment with missile weapons as a wizard.

Maxperson said:
You're assuming that you got to place your stats.

You're implying that magic user players typically made a decision of some sort to get a higher dex on their character. While it wouldn't have to be placement, the game where you imply something but don't specify, then play 'gotcha' if someone doesn't correctly read your mind when they reply doesn't really work well when someone calls you out on it.

Azzy · Jan 11, 2019

Zardnaar said:
And 1E UA method V got used a lot.

Maybe at your table.

Zardnaar · Jan 11, 2019

Azzy said:
Maybe at your table.

50/50 my table most other 1E games I saw used it as late as 2014. YMMV of course

Maxperson · Jan 11, 2019

OverlordOcelot said:
You're implying that magic user players typically made a decision of some sort to get a higher dex on their character. While it wouldn't have to be placement, the game where you imply something but don't specify, then play 'gotcha' if someone doesn't correctly read your mind when they reply doesn't really work well when someone calls you out on it.

I made no such implication whatsoever. I only said that it was not unusual for wizards to have a dex bonus to hit with missile weapons. If you read more into that statement than was actually there, you're responsible for any errors caused by your assumptions.

Dessert Nomad · Jan 12, 2019

Maxperson said:
I made no such implication whatsoever. I only said that it was not unusual for wizards to have a dex bonus to hit with missile weapons. If you read more into that statement than was actually there, you're responsible for any errors caused by your assumptions.

No, this is simply untrue. You explicitly stated that the reason magic users would have a high dex is that "dex was important to to wizards to help them stay alive", not random chance. Reading exactly what you wrote is not an error caused by assumptions.

Stalker0 · Jan 12, 2019

I still fail to see how comparing 5e wizards to 1e ones makes a bit of difference to this argument....considering monsters, casters, and noncasters have all had radical differences since that time.

The simply question is....are 5e wizards capable of equivalent contribution to the campaign at 1st - 3rd level compared to a fighter? In my viewpoint, the answer is an immediate yes.

Are they physically weaker than a fighter? Of course. So weak that a sneeze blows them away? Not anymore, they are fragile, but not glass like they used to be, but they still need protection from that front line.

Are their spells effective? Heck yeah. Spells like sleep are still rock solid, just not the "single handily win the fight with one spell". But they can still drop more orcs than a 1st level fighter could ever dream in 1 round. Their cantrips provide staying power, allowing them to contribute well all day long.

Can they contribute out of combat? They have knowledges, utility cantrips, and rituals. Doing just fine from what I can see.

So what's the real problem here?

CapnZapp · Jan 13, 2019

Stalker0 said:
So what's the real problem here?

That we're over a thousand posts in, and still ask the same question asked by the OP?

Paul Farquhar · Jan 13, 2019

CapnZapp said:
That we're over a thousand posts in, and still ask the same question asked by the OP?

Do you know what a rhetorical question is?

Eis · Jan 13, 2019

I'd really like to hear the tale of the dad who plays a wizard and never casts spells please

like...what does the character actually do? and what do the other players say? and does dad play any other classes? and do they cast spells? its a pretty fascinating way to play

cbwjm · Jan 13, 2019

Eis said:
I'd really like to hear the tale of the dad who plays a wizard and never casts spells please

like...what does the character actually do? and what do the other players say? and does dad play any other classes? and do they cast spells? its a pretty fascinating way to play

It's a sad tale of someone who doesn't know how to play a wizard.