Anti-Paladin vs. Paladin: My god can beat up your god!

Now that I've got your attention...

I've come up with an Anti-Paladin core class and variant core Paladin for you friendly ENB folks to review, both of which can be found here:

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3704

I am looking to get some feedback on whether these two classes are balanced and cool or not. I'm more interested in getting balance and game mechanic issues resolved than debating whether the changes are necessary, as I'm dead set on using them (in some form) IMC and scrapping the PHB Paladin as well as the DMG Blackguard, both of which I consider weak (at least for my game).

I want to redesign them so that they are fanatical, dedicated crusaders for their cause in terms of game mechanics rather than just flavor text...

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated; I want to use these classes in my game soon and need help now! Thank you!!!

*bump*

Could I PLEASE get some feedback on this? I'm playing this weekend and want to use them then.

Stop your belly achein'.
Just use 'em already.
You got plenty of feedback already.
You don't need me or anyone else to tell you they're not that broken.
They're play'able already, so play 'em.
Until you really play them, you'll never really know how well it worked out anyway.

LOL. I really didn't get that much (constructive) feedback. A couple people were helpful and the rest wanted to argue about whether or not they should be prestige classes. I'm going to use 'em as is (barring any last minute tweaking if I get some really good feedback today or last minute inspiration), but was hoping for a wider range of opinions first.

By "not that broken" I assume you mean they are powerful but not game unbalancingly powerful. Like the PHB cleric is still the king of core classes and my guys haven't upstaged him?

I'll move this to house rules, where you'll get more attention!

Let's see here...

Well, it looks balanced to me. It doesn't go overboard on abilities, and the extra touches really make it more...clericy.

They seem to fit well, and are much better suited to be diametrically opposed than the blackguard and paladin ever were (2 sides of the same coin...I likes!).

The main thing I'm looking at is how well the class suits the character ideal. Every good class has a niche, and yours fits the bill nicely.

As for the abilities, they don't seem high powered at all, but are reasonable for the levels they're given at. I'd say that those classes are as balanced as they can be without playing them (or coming up with new abilities to muck things up). Of course I don't know the standard level of min/maxing in your group or any house rules, but it looks fine for my games.

I guess I'd have to say I think it's balanced

Thanks!!

One problem... I don't like the name "Anti-Paladin." Its like calling Ghandi a Anti-Nazi. Give it its own name, not just the reverse of another name!
No, I don't know what you could call it. Paladin comes from history, why not look for a historical anti-paladin figure?
P.S. No flaming for the Ghandi metaphor. Just bear with me, eh? I'm tired, and couldn't think of something politically correct.

The history of the Anti Paladin

Well, it's not from "real" history, like the idea of a paladin, but it sure has it's share of history in D+D. The paladin/anti-paladin thing has been around for quite a while. Yes the name is cheesy, but I like it.

If you look at it in the right light, the anti-paladin is the perfect name. The denizens of evil, though cunning and full of nasty ideas, are a jealous breed. I can just imagine how it happened...

Paladins show up one day, all holy and just and stuff. They look all resplendant in their white tunics and shiny armor and lay waste to legions of doom-and-gloom baddies. Well, the big baddie is understandably upset, as his army of undead is now...well...dead. He runs away and hides in his evil hidey-hole and ponders where he went wrong. He's trying to figure out a new plan, but all he can think about is how cool the paladins were. "Why the hell do THEY get the cool toys?" he wonders. "Maybe I can get some too, I wonder if they come in black?" Thus is born the anti-paladin.

I guess it's just that the paladin IS the pure essence of his cause, and the anti-paladin is not necessarily just an evil version the paladin. Anti-paladin's are the worst type of evil (and an evil that truly unholy guys are known for). They took something holy, just, and righteous and turned it into a blasphemous mockery of the original form. Taking the name and just adding a prefix to it makes it both more insulting and so blatant that the good guys can't just ignore it. I hope you keep it!

Re: The history of the Anti Paladin

UnDfind said:

They took something holy, just, and righteous and turned it into a blasphemous mockery of the original form. Taking the name and just adding a prefix to it makes it both more insulting and so blatant that the good guys can't just ignore it. I hope you keep it!

Click to expand...

Hehe! I will.