Stuff that works (or doesn't work) better in PBP than RL

So what works/doesn't work in PBP?

One thing that does work; splitting up. However, I think a lot of DMs tear their hair over this. Players shouldn't overdo it as it's still a logistical nightmare.

One thing that doesn't work is large parties. They can get out of hand.

Detailed combat is also a problem. Most DMs just don't have the time to do up a nice detailed layout showing where everyone is.

Perhaps some suggestions to get around around various problems, or even new rules to enhance the PBP experience might be in order...

I think one of the greatest benefits of a PBP game is the higher level of focus the game takes on. Getting off task is fairly difficult in a digital medium like a message board, or even mIRC. This has been one of the most ... prevalent problems that I've encounter around the table, and I'm looking forward to participating in an environment that can't get as distracting.

Also, I think the textual nature of the game allows for a more rounded approach to conflict resolution. Certainly, there are more answers to some encounters beyond rolling initiative, and I hope that PBP facilitates that more easily than around the table. It seems that in a slower environment, one can take some time to contemplate and construct a more elegant approach to something. This can be a clear advantage over having to roleplay by the seat of your pants and possibly get inconsistent session-to-session.

I'm still not certain how I'm going to handle combat when we get to it, but I think I'll keep it short and sweet to begin, just to see if how mechanical we can get with the rules... PBP doesn't seem to support full-on tactical combat in the way that around the table playing can, but I suppose there's always a trade off across mediums.

I don't really have anything innovative to share, but hey, I'm fairly inexperienced, but that doesn't mean I can't try right?

- Rep.

internal monologues work GREAT.
Truly the major element that enhances the roleplaying on PbP's.

Everything about PbP's actually enhances the roleplay superior to tabletop gaming - the ability to phrase exactly what your character is doing (not having to rely on perception or guessing), the thought ballons, the extra time to craft the exact response, etc.

What doesn't work is animated OOC talk - people go out of their way to take things personally and in the wrong light when if it was in person, it would be a non-issue, or just part of the experience.

What also doesn't work is any connection to the rules - people are too willing to disengage themselves from the contructs of the rules as written, preferring to indulge in the entirely made-up world of the imagination that is required for a PbP (that, and the time and effort to run a tactical combat is herculean to pull off).

What also doesn't work is actually being able to complete a game - the pace of PbP's is too slow to retain DM AND player interest for the long haul, so it's too hard to finish up anything.

reapersaurus said:

What doesn't work is animated OOC talk - people go out of their way to take things personally and in the wrong light when if it was in person, it would be a non-issue, or just part of the experience.

What also doesn't work is any connection to the rules - people are too willing to disengage themselves from the contructs of the rules as written, preferring to indulge in the entirely made-up world of the imagination that is required for a PbP (that, and the time and effort to run a tactical combat is herculean to pull off).

What also doesn't work is actually being able to complete a game - the pace of PbP's is too slow to retain DM AND player interest for the long haul, so it's too hard to finish up anything.

Click to expand...

Getting somewhat disallusioned with PbP practicalities are you?

Reapersaurus, the internal monologue of the players is one thing I look forward to! I'm often at a loss as to what exactly the player-characters in my F2F campaigns are thinking... This seems to be the perfect opportunity for something more fulfulling -- from a storytelling standpoint, I suppose.

What would you recommend in terms of a way of conflict resolution in terms of combat and what-not? I'm still somewhat torn between letting the numbers on the sheet merely guide the outcomes of the action, or rolling it out and possibly stalling the game with having to wait 24+ hours for someone to say they rolled an 18... The first option seems rather dangerous in that it can strain Player-DM relations; the second seems risky due to the time it can take to get something done.

Would it be better to approach it in terms of presenting a more roleplaying version of conflict resolution?

Theoretically speaking, if there was a goal that needed doing, should I rely on the narrative ability of the players just as much as I do my own? Should I be approaching the game in terms of a cooperative with manipulation weighted in the direction of the DM, or something more traditional?

Too many things, I suppose, hehe,

- Rep.

DM_Matt said:

Getting somewhat disallusioned with PbP practicalities are you?

Click to expand...

No, I've _been_ disillusioned for some time.

Why is it that if I state facts (as I've seen them play out) about PbP's, there has to be any personal component to them?
What I stated about PbP's is just the way they ARE - it doesn't matter if I wish they were different, or if someone tries not to make them that way - it just IS, for better or worse.

I mentioned the Better AND the Worse.
I thought that's what was asked.

PbP's are dependant on a very iffy medium (internet written communication) to get the player's and DM's ideas and feelings across.
That is inherently suboptimal, since it is incredibly difficult to write your thoughts correctly, and even harder for the reader to interpret it properly.
In Tabletop games, the incredibly-fast exchange of ideas thru back-and-forth questions and discussion clears up many issues without people realizing how dependant all of gaming is on interaction.

You know what?
I think I just put my finger on the REAL problem with PbP's...

They aren't that _interactive_.
For all the trappings of interaction (people posting, replies, etc), in the end they really aren't that interactive (comparing to Tabletop).
There's only so much thought and debate you can do with posts before we as humans get frustrated with the length of time required to clear up something, or understand where the other person is coming from. So effectively we as PbP players don't go into it, or back out once we see how much discussion is necessary, or get sick of the topic which could have been cleared up in 2 minutes of talking IRL.

In essence, we are just posting one-sided time capsules of roleplaying.

What we post is incredibly dependant on WHEN we post in the order of the discussion (which is dependant on when we get free time to check the boards). And when we do interact and reply, it's usually on a fairly superficial level, and highly dependant on both sides being good at writing well, and reading well.

I think the evolution of the boards will be getting away from much component of rules and combat, and going to deep-immersion roleplay.
For example, the depth of roleplay in the Vampire New York by Night Chronicle is I think what PbP gaming was made for. Unless each player invests their character with enough life, personality, and background, I don't see how doing an all-roleplay game is very interesting or has much chance of success.

Too many players and DM's currently (IMO) aren't spending enough time fleshing out characters, and giving enough context to understand the motivations, thoughts, and actions of the characters. I've seen this time and time again over almost 2 years. There's a simple reaosn for this: it takes a hell of a lot of TIME (and most games are on a time-table to start up, first one who posts a character gets in), and to be honest, it's a hell of a lot of WORK for the DM and the other players to read all that background that would be generated for a fully-fleshed out character. (for example, do YOU want to read all the words posted in the Vampire Rogue's Gallery? (and that's just 1/2 to 2/3rds of the background content generated)

*whew!*
I wasn't expecting to type that much, but I wanted to get those ideas across.

And Reprisal -
I believe that the inner monologue is what PbP's shine at. Just wanted to make sure that was restated.

And "Would it be better to approach it in terms of presenting a more roleplaying version of conflict resolution? "
I've seen this, as well as this:
The speed at which a reply is posted and the effort spent on the post is also used to help dictate how combat is resolved.

Reaper: I wasnt attacking you, I was just saying that i sensed that...and it was indeed there.

Most of what you say about pbps problems are accurate.

see?
Pretty good example of the inherent problems of PbP communication. ROFL

I winked, and meant to get across that I know you weren't 'attacking' me, but followed up in clarification to point out to anyone else reading and taking things they're own way that I wasn't only pointing out negative aspects of PbP gaming.

And likewise, you probably know that I didn't feel you were attacking me, but wanted it clear (thanks, BTW)

Problem is: people tend to 'like' to take the written word differently from what it's intended.
Since the words are RIGHT THERE in print, you'd think it would be easy to take them as they are.
However, words in print are SOOO malleable - people can twist them unintentionally, and before you know it, there's an exagerrated conflict going on when someone just wanted to talk things out (which _I_ thought was the POINT of the OOC Forum).

You would not believe how often I have seen something very similar to what I've described happen, and nothing happened here.
Words that if you were sitting at the table with a guy would just be part of the game are magnified and ruminated on until there's a perceived slight, or an unwelcome attack.

THAT's one of the main downfalls to internet PbP gaming, in my experience.

At this point, I sometimes wonder if the misunderstandings are due not the nature of the medium, but by a shortcoming in terms of the author and/or reader of any given post. If you write something that means anything, shouldn't you do all you can to make it as coherent as you can?

Not that I'm implying anything, but it seems to me that people tend to speed through posts and threads as quickly as possible -- often to the detriment of clarity for the sake of some form of efficiency.

((I've just been through a "Writing Clearly" course in College, so please excuse me if I seem a little ... indoctrinated.))

I dunno, being inexperienced, I'm still cautiously optimistic,

- Rep.

Reprisal said:

Theoretically speaking, if there was a goal that needed doing, should I rely on the narrative ability of the players just as much as I do my own? Should I be approaching the game in terms of a cooperative with manipulation weighted in the direction of the DM, or something more traditional?
- Rep.

Click to expand...

This is pretty much the only comment I feel should be made. Players are more responsible in PbP. I know how to carry myself better as a player, adding story elements and letting players know the difference between my characters opinions of their characters and my opinions of them. Take a look at my work in the Psionicle if you don't understand what I'm refering too. I have taken a great deal of interest into developing different relationships with each character involved in the game, specifically to enhance the overall game. In my solo game (yet to begin), I'm very much responsible for 50% of the game, but in other games, I'm still responsible for at least my share of the total work.

I believe in doing everything that 'bogs down' a tabletop game 10 times as much in PbP, because it bogs no-person down. I can throw as many as 4 fully developed NPCs at a group of players per real life session, and have them as more than just 'named characters' which is what some players seem to think NPCs are. In this medium, PbP, I can actually throw 2-4 NPCs at a group over the course of 4 of my posts, and either they hit or miss with the group.

The general concensus that I've reached is that players MUST take the responsibility upon themselves to fully develop the elements they have. Those elements are specific to the character, but the DM cannot 'give' you those elements. A DM can look at a players face in a table top game, and determine where their attitude is headed, but in PbP you must speak out with these things, and still do everything else required to developing a character.

That's just IMHO.