Hi all. Another question here, or rather, I'll tell you my theory on something and am curious to see what others think...Hi all. I was looking at the feats and I noticed the dual wielder feat and started flicking through the book to a couple of things.I read the rules on proficiency, improvised weapons, dual wielding and shields and I found that technically, the only thing preventing a shield from being classified as an improvised weapon in a characters offhand is that it does not have the 'light' category (and of course it wouldn't, because it isn't considered a weapon in the equipment section)
Strictly following the rules, I don't see why a 1st level human fighter with variant rules and the dual wielder feat would not have suddenly turned their shield into an improvised offhand weapon. Furthermore, under the dual wielder feat, there is nothing that specifies a weapon cannot be an improvised weapon for the purpose of gaining the +1 bonus to AC. At lower levels, this is very powerful, because suddenly a 1st lv fighter in chain mail not only can have an AC of 19 (or 20 with the defense fighting style) but also gains the benefit of an offhand attack (even if it is without prof bonus and only 1d4, maybe + damage mod depending on fighting style).
The strongest argument against this working, would be the question as to whether an improvised weapon is ONLY an improvised weapon for the purpose of attacking, OR if it is classified more broadly. In the equipment section, it would appear the classification is broad. Page 147 PHB "-An improvised weapon INCLUDES any object you can wield in one or two hands. Now put the above fighter in full-plate with the defense fighting style and you've got a two weapon fighter with AC of 22.
Additionally, let's now look at dual wielding javelins. On page 195 PHB under 2w fighting it states towards the bottom of the paragraph "-if either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon instead of making a melee attack with it"Combine this with the dual wielder feat and take our above fighter. Get him to put away his sword and shield. Now he can draw 2 javelins as if he was drawing one, without spending an action or bonus action. He can suddenly make 2 ranged attacks per round at first level.
In fact, based on the rules, a commoner could make two thrown weapon attacks in a round and could continue to do so if he could only draw them quickly enough say via the use of the above feat if he were a human variant commoner.Even if a group of commoners didn't have this feat available, let's say they're rather savvy and resourseful. They find out their village is being attacked by orcs in the next few hours. Their hunters set out hunting traps and cover them in leaves. Hunters remain close by hidden on rooftops or in trees with bows at the ready. Other townsfolk mostly arm themselves with clubs and sickles but some might have a couple of javelins on them. Additionally, some have decided to cut up and weight some fishing nets to use at the start of combat. Some have grabbed flasks of oil in their offhand and some might be holding torches. Let's nickname these clever peons the netters, oilers and the burners.
If they are lucky enough to have initiative or smart and brave enough to prepare a reaction, a netter might get to act against a charging Orc first. If their net hits, suddenly they and every other commoner has advantage on their attacks against the Orc until it can break free. The oilers will get to roll with advantage to strike with their weapons and to hit with their flask and the burners will get advantage to all of their attacks. If everything followed in that order, the above mentioned commoners with base stats 10 would likely do 8 to 14 damage (2 sickle attacks + 1 torch attack + 5 fire damage). Add to this that the Orc has disadvantage to hit unless it breaks free (costing an action and either DC10 strength check or a dc10 attack at disadvantage, requiring 5 damage to be dealt to the net) and depending on initiative order, they may get another round of attacks.
What do people think about the above scenarios? Is all of the above appropriate and within the boundaries of the rules, is there something I'm missing or were the rules tweaked at all recently to prevent the above from happening? Thoughts?
Strictly following the rules, I don't see why a 1st level human fighter with variant rules and the dual wielder feat would not have suddenly turned their shield into an improvised offhand weapon. Furthermore, under the dual wielder feat, there is nothing that specifies a weapon cannot be an improvised weapon for the purpose of gaining the +1 bonus to AC. At lower levels, this is very powerful, because suddenly a 1st lv fighter in chain mail not only can have an AC of 19 (or 20 with the defense fighting style) but also gains the benefit of an offhand attack (even if it is without prof bonus and only 1d4, maybe + damage mod depending on fighting style).
The strongest argument against this working, would be the question as to whether an improvised weapon is ONLY an improvised weapon for the purpose of attacking, OR if it is classified more broadly. In the equipment section, it would appear the classification is broad. Page 147 PHB "-An improvised weapon INCLUDES any object you can wield in one or two hands. Now put the above fighter in full-plate with the defense fighting style and you've got a two weapon fighter with AC of 22.
Additionally, let's now look at dual wielding javelins. On page 195 PHB under 2w fighting it states towards the bottom of the paragraph "-if either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon instead of making a melee attack with it"Combine this with the dual wielder feat and take our above fighter. Get him to put away his sword and shield. Now he can draw 2 javelins as if he was drawing one, without spending an action or bonus action. He can suddenly make 2 ranged attacks per round at first level.
In fact, based on the rules, a commoner could make two thrown weapon attacks in a round and could continue to do so if he could only draw them quickly enough say via the use of the above feat if he were a human variant commoner.Even if a group of commoners didn't have this feat available, let's say they're rather savvy and resourseful. They find out their village is being attacked by orcs in the next few hours. Their hunters set out hunting traps and cover them in leaves. Hunters remain close by hidden on rooftops or in trees with bows at the ready. Other townsfolk mostly arm themselves with clubs and sickles but some might have a couple of javelins on them. Additionally, some have decided to cut up and weight some fishing nets to use at the start of combat. Some have grabbed flasks of oil in their offhand and some might be holding torches. Let's nickname these clever peons the netters, oilers and the burners.
If they are lucky enough to have initiative or smart and brave enough to prepare a reaction, a netter might get to act against a charging Orc first. If their net hits, suddenly they and every other commoner has advantage on their attacks against the Orc until it can break free. The oilers will get to roll with advantage to strike with their weapons and to hit with their flask and the burners will get advantage to all of their attacks. If everything followed in that order, the above mentioned commoners with base stats 10 would likely do 8 to 14 damage (2 sickle attacks + 1 torch attack + 5 fire damage). Add to this that the Orc has disadvantage to hit unless it breaks free (costing an action and either DC10 strength check or a dc10 attack at disadvantage, requiring 5 damage to be dealt to the net) and depending on initiative order, they may get another round of attacks.
What do people think about the above scenarios? Is all of the above appropriate and within the boundaries of the rules, is there something I'm missing or were the rules tweaked at all recently to prevent the above from happening? Thoughts?
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