D&D 5E Perfect example of the kind of interaction that I wish Wizards had with it's community.

We all know Wizards it tight lipped and sometimes Mike or someone else may let something slip on twitter. Things like the updated realms etc. I like that. I really value company interaction with fans like this. Keep us in the loop about whats going on, what we might expect etc etc. Recently I picked up the new Mortal Kombat X that released. That spurred me to go and check out Ed Boon's (Creator and head designer of MK) twitter. MAN! That guy toys with the fans in such a great way. If you just go and look at his posts he just teases everything! Example:
[MENTION=67572]Lazy[/MENTION]EyedJ [MENTION=6786221]No[/MENTION]obde So Ed are you secretly gonna patch in the NPC's from story to make them playable?
EdBoon: U mean like a "Story Pack" ?

He makes so many posts like this referring to characters he KNOWS that people want in the game possibly hinting at SOMETHING but never outright confirming anything. It at least allows the community to know that he hears us on a daily basis and knows what we want. Mearls does this, but with such in frequency. I wish developer interaction was much more casual in this way.

Well, there's no one to blame for this except all the screaming masses that did nothing but rip WotC a new one over and over any time something wasn't released in the exact form they had mentioned months or years before.

I wonder if Ed has had that experience yet?

Evenglare said:

MAN! That guy toys with the fans in such a great way. If you just go and look at his posts he just teases everything! Example:

[MENTION=67572]Lazy[/MENTION]EyedJ [MENTION=6786221]No[/MENTION]obde So Ed are you secretly gonna patch in the NPC's from story to make them playable?
EdBoon: U mean like a "Story Pack" ?

He makes so many posts like this referring to characters he KNOWS that people want in the game possibly hinting at SOMETHING but never outright confirming anything.

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And that's a perfect example of what I don't want. I find that kind of "toying" incredibly annoying, and much worse than just saying silent. I don't particularly care for WotC's relative silence, either, but it's vastly preferable.

DEFCON 1 said:

Well, there's no one to blame for this except all the screaming masses that did nothing but rip WotC a new one over and over any time something wasn't released in the exact form they had mentioned months or years before.

I wonder if Ed has had that experience yet?

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You're seem to be assuming a couple things here. Feel free to correct me if I have interpreted you wrong or misunderstood.

One: You seem to think bad interactions are largely the result of fans behavior and not WOTC.. I would think its a two-way street with both groups being partially to blame historically.

Two: You seem to assume WOTC reaction to that history is only going to be silence, etc. That's not a given. This has come up on other threads about WOTC communication before. How they communicate now, what they do and do not say and to whom is not the only way they could react. Plenty of other companies do worse so they could do worse (comcast or mcdonalds for example) but plenty of companies do much better and remain professional.

HobbitFan said:

One: You seem to think bad interactions are largely the result of fans behavior and not WOTC.. I would think its a two-way street with both groups being partially to blame historically.

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What behavior has WotC had in the past to promote bad interactions with the fans?

WotC teases all the damn time. We know the next storyline has an Alice in Wonderland vibe, and they were teasing 5e before it came, and the inclusion of certain elements in the design.

The problem is, the teasing has to be vague. And when people read the vague, they jump to conclusions and fill in the blanks with their own desires and biases. Then, those fans get mad at WotC when the half-imagined thing is not released.
People still complain that WotC broke their word when 5e didn't prove to be backwards compatible with all previous editions or have total modularity that lets them play a game exactly like 1e or 4e.

Personally, I'd just be happy if a few WotC designers would pop onto ENWorld and talk directly with us.

Jester Canuck said:

Personally, I'd just be happy if a few WotC designers would pop onto ENWorld and talk directly with us.

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As you'll no doubt recall, they used to do just that. Every word got hung upon, and when WotC was unable to deliver on a perceived "promise" to the fans, they were pilloried for it.

I really think 5E was a "last kick at the RPG can" effort by WotC. The entire brand post-release has a vibe of "we aren't investing a dime in new books until we know damn well it'll be profitable enough to be sustainable". I suspect the 4E era burned WotC's budget badly enough by its end that they massively reinvented their strategy towards publishing, and now development dollars for TTRPG products are scarce until a fat enough margin can be assured.

EDIT: Not to imply that 5E has been a half-assed effort. (It mostly hasn't been.) But everything after the core books has either been outsourced or in draft form, or a non-TTRPG product, which doesn't exactly make it look like WotC has much interest in gambling its own money on this stuff anymore.

doctorhook said:

As you'll no doubt recall, they used to do just that. Every word got hung upon, and when WotC was unable to deliver on a perceived "promise" to the fans, they were pilloried for it.

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I wasn't around for that. I've seen a few token appearances but not many.
I think it could still work, provided ENWorld is committed to warning or banning people who abuse the WotCers, and people don't try to corner the staff. The more they post the more used to them people will become and the less confrontation people will be, since it feels less like they're only opportunity to vent or express months of feelings.

The regular presence of Paizo staff on their boards is typically positive, and there's no fewer jerks and trolls there.

doctorhook said:

I really think 5E was a "last kick at the RPG can" effort by WotC. The entire brand post-release has a vibe of "we aren't investing a dime in new books until we know damn well it'll be profitable enough to be sustainable". I suspect the 4E era burned WotC's budget badly enough by its end that they massively reinvented their strategy towards publishing, and now development dollars for TTRPG products are scarce until a fat enough margin can be assured.

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I mostly agree. It does seem like they're giving D&D one more chance to not fail before they shutter the RPG.
But I think they're trying to divorce the profits of D&D from the RPG rather than holding back on investing in books. They're breaking D&D from the accessory cycle, so that continued sales of the Core Rulebooks and other products provide all the necessary RPG money for the brand with most of the money coming from elsewhere. So that any money made from accessories/expansions is pure bonus cash.

I live in Alberta. The majority of our economy is tied to the oil industry. Taxes and exports and such. So when the price of oil goes down, our economy goes into shock and suddenly we don't have enough money for schools or hospitals or infrastructure. The health of the entire province is tied to the one industry whose fluctuations are beyond our control.
I see the last couple editions of D&D as similar to that. Everything was riding on the tabletop RPG. 4e especially where they doubled down on regular books selling extra-well (because everything was core) and the regular subscription money of DDI. When books sales dipped for whatever reason (a less popular book being released or things cutting into disposable cash, such as a geeky video game, blockbuster movie season beginning, or a hit rival RPG book being released) the entire brand suffered.
Spreading things out means that even if the tabletops suffer one month the video games and minis keep profits afloat.

doctorhook said:

EDIT: Not to imply that 5E has been a half-assed effort. (It mostly hasn't been.) But everything after the core books has either been outsourced or in draft form, or a non-TTRPG product, which doesn't exactly make it look like WotC has much interest in gambling its own money on this stuff anymore.

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Outsourcing (aka freelancing) isn't uncommon. Most of Paizo's AP volumes are written by freelancers. Having editing, layout, and art handled by other people is odd, but the WotC team did have other books to work on. I can imagine the production stuff returning in-house for future books, even if writing is still mostly done by other studios.

They're not abandoning the RPG, guys. They need to clear $50 million in order to get the kind of budget they had in the 3e days. They know they can't get that from the RPG by itself. They gave it a valiant try with 4e. The only way they can do it is by expanding the brand. Get some popular video games, maybe some kind of media project, be that TV or movie, things like that. If they can clear that number, or at least bring enough revenue to make Hasbro's quarterly reports, then they'll get more of that sweet, sweet Hasbro cash to spend on a bigger R&D group and a bit more product.

Iosue said:

They're not abandoning the RPG, guys. They need to clear $50 million in order to get the kind of budget they had in the 3e days. They know they can't get that from the RPG by itself. They gave it a valiant try with 4e. The only way they can do it is by expanding the brand. Get some popular video games, maybe some kind of media project, be that TV or movie, things like that. If they can clear that number, or at least bring enough revenue to make Hasbro's quarterly reports, then they'll get more of that sweet, sweet Hasbro cash to spend on a bigger R&D group and a bit more product.

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Where are you getting that from, and why are you saying it like it's a confirmed fact?