Are Asians not allowed in Superhero Movies?

Mallus

Legend
Where to begin with this?

What matters most to me is more and better roles for Asians in American films, superhero or otherwise. Roles that are in and of themselves diverse and less connected to common stereotypes, even if those stereotypes are positive -- which is why I absolutely *do not want* an Asian-American Danny Rand/Iron First, for exmaple (more on this in a bit).

I'm fine w/Tilda Swinton being in Dr. Strange. She's a good actress and a marvelously odd human being, who quite possibly fell to Earth along with David Bowie at some point in the 20th century. I quite liked Ben Kingsley's Mandarin, too. Another great actor in a role that neatly side-stepped the problems inherent in bringing a Yellow Peril-esque character to the 21st century Silver Screen. Besides, as was already pointed out, Kingsley is of Asian heritage.

To be frank, I have something of a problem with "Asian roles" in media. What starts as an earnest call for increasing diversity often ends up sounding like a return to racist typecasting. I want to see an Asian Spider-Man and Lois Lane, not another martial artist or quasi-Chinese mystic. So gender-and-ethnicity-flipping the Old One into a tall, ethereal British woman is okay, not a cause for concern.

A while back an Asian/Pacific Islander-American advocacy group was petitioning Marvel to recast Danny Rand as Asian. Because Danny being white makes the whole character an act of cultural appropriation, or embarrassingly dated Orientalism, or both. While I can respect where they're coming from, I still think it's an awful idea. I spent my youth being called Bruce Lee/Kato by my peers -- which, in retrospect, I should have taken as a compliment -- so a group of present day Asian-American activists want to essentially reinforce the idea that Kung-Fu Master = Asian Guy seems, well, mindbogglingly stupid and retrograde. Shouldn't we be fighting for better representation than this?

In a similar vein, the complaints about Scarlett Johansson playing the Major Kusanagi in the Ghost in the Shell remake read kinda racist to me. It's a American adaptation of a Japanese anime/manga. Why does the role "belong" to a Japanese actress. Or failing that, at least a non-Indian Asian one? Would people be complaining if it were, say, a German work being adapted? "Well, the lead actress should be German-American, but we're willing to accept someone Polish or French". I have both a tiny bit of Japanese heritage and significantly more German (if I had too, I could bake a stollen for Christmas using my nana's recipe). I can't fathom why media from one of my ancestries should be treated as different from another -- both are developed nations in their own right, and neither groups in the US qualify as discriminated-against minorities. Besides, the character isn't a minority within the work; she's part of the majority ethnic group (except for the military-grade cybernetics). The demand becomes nonsensical; the studio should preserver & honor the original work by casting an Asian actress, but also completely rewrite the character so she's from a minority background. Oy vey...

Also, while calling out the lack of diversity in media has its place, it's also nice to signal-boost shows that are doing diversity well. Like the aforementioned Agents of Shield, with it's two Asian-American principles (and another season-long guest star/antagonist). And the absolutely amazing Sense8 -- a very brave, ambitious show in which the diversity and beauty of human beings is it's beating, worn-on-it's sleeve heart. Why don't we have a thread about Sense8? It's effing wonderful.

(apologies for the length... this topic is, evidently, important to me).

edit: one more thing - it's with no small amount of irony I'll note that in the 1930s there were at least three Hollywood film series featuring Asian main characters. Fine, fine, none of them were played by Asians (though major supporting roles were, like Keye Luke's fantastic turn as Charlie Chan's #1 Son), but still. That's three more Asian heroes than you've got in the multiplexes today. And of the three, only Peter Lorre's Mr. Moto used the martial arts, and even then only a bit of judo, used judiciously.
 
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Dannyalcatraz

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Not if it involves more obnoxious characters like Ruby Rhod and Snails the thief.

Ruby amused me, but Snails? Snails was just a manifestation of the fact that the producers of that movie couldn't afford Chris Tucker, and hired Marlon Wayans to do the character in his best Chris Tucker impression...which wasn't all that good.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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Not a big fan of affirmative action, eh?
Speaking for myself only, I'm not a fan of the recasting of most characters by race or gender (on screen or in things like comic books). Yes, it lets you explore aspects of a character or storyline that might not have worked with the original, but all too often, it is a distraction and needlessly changes the character's dynamics.

I say needless, because, too often, the subtler changes that go along with the obvious racial or gender swap go completely ignored. Example: Will Smith as the highly visible, flashy Secret Service agent James West faced almost no consequences of his skin color...in the Americas between 1869-1877. (The real first black agent in the Secret Service came in the early 1960s.)

As a black man, I want to see and read about black heroes, of course. But I want them to be more original than merely painted-over Caucasians.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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I spent my youth being called Bruce Lee/Kato by my peers -- which, in retrospect, I should have taken as a compliment...

Why? Was it meant as one?

There's reasons why many Native Americans don't like being called "Chief" or "Geronimo", even though those would normally connote respect.
 

Ruby amused me, but Snails? Snails was just a manifestation of the fact that the producers of that movie couldn't afford Chris Tucker, and hired Marlon Wayans to do the character in his best Chris Tucker impression...which wasn't all that good.
Got a link to back that up? Not the money angle, I know the money wasn't there (what they did have probably went up someones nose), but that Sweetpee wanted Chris Tucker.
 

Ryujin

Legend
Speaking for myself only, I'm not a fan of the recasting of most characters by race or gender (on screen or in things like comic books). Yes, it lets you explore aspects of a character or storyline that might not have worked with the original, but all too often, it is a distraction and needlessly changes the character's dynamics.

I say needless, because, too often, the subtler changes that go along with the obvious racial or gender swap go completely ignored. Example: Will Smith as the highly visible, flashy Secret Service agent James West faced almost no consequences of his skin color...in the Americas between 1869-1877. (The real first black agent in the Secret Service came in the early 1960s.)

As a black man, I want to see and read about black heroes, of course. But I want them to be more original than merely painted-over Caucasians.

As someone who actually watched "Wild, Wild West" on a black and white TV, as a kid, Will Smith's place in it somewhat stretched credulity. If we want to have stories with more diversity and better casting for such then it's about time that people start writing new stuff, instead of strip mining old TV and movies.

"Django Unchained", for example.

If you're doing a piece set in a historic setting, then the story should fit that setting. Heroes who buck the status quo are both easy to write and engaging for the audience, especially when said status quo is unfair. Science Fiction has a long history of addressing past and present sociopolitical issues in a future setting. Fantasy can easily do the same.

But then again I'm a pasty white guy of mostly Scottish descent, so my opinion on such matters has little import.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Got a link to back that up? Not the money angle, I know the money wasn't there (what they did have probably went up someones nose), but that Sweetpee wanted Chris Tucker.

Apologies- I don't mean to imply that they actually and in fact wanted Chris Tucker.

But the character was SO badly done, I inferred that someone- the director, maybe Marlon himself- thought the idea of a "Chris Tucker type" portrayal would be best.

And he was NOT up to the challenge.
 

Mallus

Legend
Why? Was it meant as one?

There's reasons why many Native Americans don't like being called "Chief" or "Geronimo", even though those would normally connote respect.
Oh it surely wasn't meant as a compliment -- I was kidding. It just strikes me as slightly funny now that I'm a middle-aged man that my childhood friends chose to a call me a handsome, deadly, movie star as thought it was insulting.

As a black man, I want to see and read about black heroes, of course. But I want them to be more original than merely painted-over Caucasians.
This gets to the heart of my problem with a lot of the contemporary calls for diversity in media. There needs to be an honestly to the characters, to the depictions of minority experiences. More than just appearances. Which means not just better casting, but more non-white people doing the writing and directing, with less interference from corporate (which is hard to imagine given the budget of superhero films) . This is why Ava DuVernay passing on directing the Black Panther film bothers me more than Swinton in Dr. Strange.
 


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