Are Drow considered "Fey".....? Why or why not?

pemerton

Legend
Now I'm just confused. I'm thinking "Fey" have to be 1) Humanoidish, and 2) possess innate magical ability ........I mean, at birth.
I'm not sure what you're confused by/about.

Here is the 4e definition of fey (MM p 281): Fey creatures are native to the Feywild.

Here is the relevant entry from the drow PC race description (FRPG p 8; the same wording is found in the PHB in relation to Eladrin and Elves): Your ancestors were native to the Feywild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.

I'm not sure about the significance of "innate magical ability", but in 4e drow have innate magical ability (faerie fire or cloud of darkness), eladrin have innate magical ability (fey step) and elves are preternaturally stealthy and accurate (elven accuracy).
 

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GreenTengu

Adventurer
I think elves in general are considered fey-descendants, but no longer true fey.

It often seems like "fey" in D&D is just short-hand for "good-aligned monster with magical powers". There are very few hostile or wicked ones.

In fact, from the beginning things whose original myths would never classify them as fey such as Satyrs somehow got grouped in there simply because they weren't evil-aligned. They didn't even really consistently have magical powers in their original myths.

They kind of just hung out in the woods, got drunk all the time and had sex with everything that moved.
 

Herobizkit

Adventurer
From a D&D 4e wiki:

Fey is a creature origin describing creatures from the Feywild. It is also a keyword in some effects. A few fey creatures (of the many) are drow, and eladrin. All elves are said to have come from the Feywild.

From RPG Stackexchange:

There are items that have powers and properties that look for fey origin:

Cold Iron Bracers grant a defense bonus against fey creature's attacks.
Cold Iron Weapons' immobilization daily power damages fey creatures.
Fey Slaughter Weapons deal extra critical damage against fey creatures.

and a Forgotten Relams wikia:

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Fey
 

GreenTengu

Adventurer

hmmmm... interesting bit on that page.

"Gnomes enjoy making light of supposedly serious things, and this unites them with fey as well, though only in attitude."

and then

"the term "fey" seems to simply mean any creature whose origins are tied to the Feywild. Fomorians, Gnomes, Hags, Faerie dragons, and Mirage dragons are all examples of fey"

Also, relevant to this discussion,
"However, perhaps the best known examples of fey are the Tel-quessir."

Tel-quessir are elves including eladrin and drow.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Now I'm just confused. I'm thinking "Fey" have to be 1) Humanoidish, and 2) possess innate magical ability ........I mean, at birth.

I don't think either is necessarily required. I think you could reasonably have fey that were not particularly humanoid in form and did not possess any notable innate spell ability.

In general, D&D never really defined 'fey' or 'fairy'. The notion began to take shape when 3e began to distinctly classify monsters as 'animal', 'beast', 'dragon', 'aberration', etc. However, to my knowledge, 3e didn't attempt to provide any coherent single mythic basis for each of these categories, leaving that up to the individual DM. Fey in my campaign therefore retained their homebrew origin as the 'small gods' of the fern and flower that predated the later gods that were born from the fruit of Yggdrasil (a conception that was independently created in parallel with that presented in 'The Book of the Righteous', probably with similar real world mythic inspiration). Fey also provided the basic design template that the gods would later use to create the humanoids (so in fact, humanoids are vaguely feyish in my campaign world rather than fey being vaguely humanoidish). Fey in my campaign world are basically close kindred to the elementals, and could be considered a sort of prime material elemental. The close semblance between the fey and the elementals can be seen in elementals such as the sylph and nymphs, that share with fey both demeanor and natural form. Fey are just prime material stuff that gained life and sentience at the same time the animals and plants were springing up, apparently through some basic chaotic principle of the universe (as in contrast to plants and animals, fey are overwhelmingly chaotic in nature). Some of them later migrated into other areas of the multiverse, particularly the far ethereal (now often called Fairie) and the near astral (the so called Dreamlands) and later the dominions of certain chaotic deities whose outlook they shared, but fundamentally they are simply the eldest and oldest incarnations of the material world. Among the fey, there is a belief that the eldest of the fey on first awakening saw the Nameless Creator's back as he departed from the multiverse.

So that is who the fey were and are for me, but when 4e came along they decided to give all of 3e's categories a definitive mythic explanation. So, as pemerton pointed out, in 4e fey simply refers to denizens of the feywilde. That is to say, "Fey are from fairy." To me this rather reverses the story of my campaign world (and incidently, of the real myths of Earth as well), in that rather than having fey flee to fairy as they are pushed out by people gradually causing this world to fade somewhat, it has them invaders from some other world. Ultimately, there is nothing wrong with that and the 4e world is interesting in its own right, but it always struck me that 4e's various canonical inventions were no more than some DM's homebrew being allowed to take canonical status. This is particularly true of the areas where 4e departed canonically from what had been canonical myth and origin stories in prior editions.

All of this is just a long preamble for getting around to saying that ultimately, fey are simply whatever you decide is best for you own campaign. By and large this isn't a settled question with a single canonical answer. At best you could say, "What are fey in X edition?" or "What are fey in X campaign setting?" There is no universally accepted definition of fairy.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I don't think either is necessarily required. I think you could reasonably have fey that were not particularly humanoid in form ...

I think the Hellboy movies and Pan's Labyrinth have examlpes of things we'd probably call "fey", but that aren't really very humanoid.
 

Celebrim

Legend
I'll attempt to find this & read it. However, it it goes on about "crow people" with no discernible innate, magical ability, I'll not consider it a proper write-up of the Tengu. I've recently read too many legend/lore thingies from Japanese mythology to believe the Tengu are only silly bird-men without inborn magic.....

Well, following up on my prior post where I explained there is no single definition of fairy, if you actually go back to the myth what you'll find is that there is no single definition of Tengu either. Just as the stories about fairies in the West evolved over the centuries, gradually changing what fairies were conceived to be and the roles that they had in the stories, stories about Tengu in the East likewise evolved over the centuries and the roles and origins that they had in the stories changed over time. You could make a parallel and say that this means the Tengu are fairies of Eastern mythic origin, but to my mind that's inherently Eurocentric and is getting in the way of actually understanding the Tengu myths. If you want to fit Tengu in to a D&D campaign that is Eurocentric, it's not at all clear to me where you end up fitting them and where you end up fitting them probably depends as much as anything on which Tengu stories from which era of history you end up counting as definitive. If you go by the original Tengu stories, then the best fit for Tengu is as tempter deities which make them Outsiders (and probably demons) rather than Fey. Tengu don't start to take on traits that parallel a part of the mythic evolution of fairies until relatively late.

And above all, when comparing Tengu to Elves, you can't ignore the role Tolkien has in the evolution of the terms Fairy and Elf. Tolkien's legerdemain absolutely revolutionizes what people think of when they hear the world 'elf' so that the pre-Tolkien 'elf' has absolutely no relationship to a D&D elf at all. By the same token, I don't think you can ignore the effect RPG's and Gygax have on how people think of all 'monsters'. Gygax's elves are now more definitive in the popular imagination than even Tolkien's, so much so that Gygax's elves and what people know about them tend to make it difficult for readers to understand Tolkien's elves that actually inspired the Gygaxian PC race. Quite a few monsters have been morphed by Gygaxian consensus fantasy, so you really can't grumble too much if a particular D&D monster has little to do with its mythic inspiration. If you try to reconcile all the different mythic traditions, you'll inevitably end up losing nuances from some of them. They only way to avoid that is play an RPG within a single mythic tradition from a single era.

But let me ask you this; why does it bother you that Elves and Tengu aren't fairies, when it apparently doesn't bother you that Orcs aren't fairies?
 
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Shemeska

Adventurer
As an aside, I would not consider Wikipedia authorative on D&D matters.

If you can't find an actual official source (as something published by TSR or Wotc etc), go for specialized wikis like the Forgotten Realms wiki.

I wouldn't place a ton of trust in the FR wiki unless the wiki itself sources information to a published book. There was an image of a Pathfinder astradaemon in place for around a year and a half being used as the sample illustration for a baernaloth before it was changed. On top of that, the FR wiki has a ton of conflicting information in place from core 4e material that was never intended for FR specific use but ended up being inserted into the wiki anyway.
 

Tuzenbach

First Post
I'm not sure what you're confused by/about.

Here is the 4e definition of fey .....


LoL, are you assuming I believe in the relevance of 4E? ;)


I'm confused that different peeps say Drow ARE 'Fey', while others are saying they are NOT 'Fey'. Further, I'm confused that Elves without inborn magical abilities are considered 'Fey'.....
 
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Tuzenbach

First Post
But let me ask you this; why does it bother you that Elves and Tengu aren't fairies, when it apparently doesn't bother you that Orcs aren't fairies?



Excuse me? Please do explain to me where I said this. And please know that I consider "Drow" to be but one species of Elf, and certainly not all Elves.


Is the word "fairy" now taken to imply "fey"......???



Again, this is very, VERY confusing!!!! LoL, did Gygax realize back in the '70s that by 2015 there'd be a Tower of Babel surrounding D&D? I really do have to laugh...... :lol:
 

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