Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

Oh man. SUCH a great movie. Lived up to the hype.

I've seen reviews saying it was a retread of New Hope (kind of mashed with Empire) and calling it lazy writing. I'm calling it brilliant. For a couple reasons: 1) Just from a fan perspective, what was everyone longing nearly the moment he prequels arrived? To generalize it, I think the longing was for something Star-Warsy. The prequels were too clean, slow, somber when compared to the gritty, fast, fun originals. All of the elements that we were clamoring for were there in this movie. 2) Beyond that though, I think it was necessary. This film serves as an extremely important transition from old to new and it needed to be a set up film. This film, like New Hope needs to leave us with lots of questions, and it's hard to do that without a solid foundation. And frankly, I'm glad it echoed New Hope. I was glad for the parallels and I didn't feel like it was a retread at all, more like an echo, almost like a flowering (that's sounds sappy, but it's true).

I like what they did with Kylo Ren. A lot. I like that he is devoted to Vader. His saber tantrums. His struggle between the light and dark. How he confessed that the light was pulling him and how it was 'weakness'. And ultimately with the death of his father...the very thing the Emperor desired for Luke...to strike down his own father. You could tell Kylo was struggling and his choice was extremely ominous. He knew it was what he needed to complete his transition. Han slowly stroking his face as if to say "My boy, I still love you" Oh man, that got me good.

Rey and Finn and Poe were all home runs. I can't wait to see the adventures they go on. Rey is still a mystery. Everything within me says she must be Luke's daughter but if that is the case, they're going to really have to convince me (I almost wanted to think she was Han and Leia's daughter...but that simply would not make sense). If she's Luke's daughter 1) why wouldn't Leia feel it or Han consider it. She was left on Jakku as a young girl, but I'm sure old enough to remember the face of her parents. If it was Luke, why was she left behind to such a bad life? So even though Luke pops first to the mind, I don't think she's Luke's daughter. But all the same, I feel she has some connection to the Skywalkers.

As to someone's hand being lopped off, me and the kids were discussing that on the ride home. I was under the impression that Rey cut Kylo Ren's hand off just before she slashed his face, as they were struggling and forcing his saber into the ground. She cut something...was it the saber or was it his hand? I thought it was his hand, but it wasn't clear. Definitely something I want to rewatch for.

There's about a million other things I love and want to talk about...AHH! STAR WARS!

Morrus said:

Was he, really, though? I don't think there is any action you can take which redeems something like that. Chucking an old man who was lightning blasting your son down a hole certainly doesn't redeem him! And he did plenty of other evil things, too. I don't think Anakin gets to have redemption.

Well, I'm wrong, because clearly he does - he appeared next to Yoda and Kenobi as a happy force ghost. But I think that's a terrible misstep.

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I'm only just now coming to think about things in this way (after Kylo Ren's speech to Han) but I wonder if it's less the redemption of Vader and the triumph of Anakin... That is to say, Anakin (and Ben Solo) are both considered, by themselves and others, to be dead. Once they've crossed to the dark side, they become someone new. Anakin becomes Vader. The light fades and the darkness spreads. So when Luke says he still believes there is some good in his father (or Leia, her son) they are speaking in terms of the force. It is Anakin, not Vader, who destroys the Emperor, and this doesn't redeem his dark actions, but signifies that the darkness has not overcome the light. I'll admit, it isn't quite satisfactory, but maybe it's better to think about it in those terms (light overcoming the darkness) rather than in redemption/atonement (though that can't be fully left out)

halfling rogue said:

I'm only just now coming to think about things in this way (after Kylo Ren's speech to Han) but I wonder if it's less the redemption of Vader and the triumph of Anakin... That is to say, Anakin (and Ben Solo) are both considered, by themselves and others, to be dead. Once they've crossed to the dark side, they become someone new. Anakin becomes Vader. The light fades and the darkness spreads. So when Luke says he still believes there is some good in his father (or Leia, her son) they are speaking in terms of the force. It is Anakin, not Vader, who destroys the Emperor, and this doesn't redeem his dark actions, but signifies that the darkness has not overcome the light. I'll admit, it isn't quite satisfactory, but maybe it's better to think about it in those terms (light overcoming the darkness) rather than in redemption/atonement (though that can't be fully left out)

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I'll try that when I next get a speeding ticket. It wasn't me, it was Darth Morrus!

Morrus said:

I'll try that when I next get a speeding ticket. It wasn't me, it was Darth Morrus!

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Make sure to use the force (and try again if it doesn't work the first time)

Orlax said:

Similar feelings here. Going to the dark side properly involves doing things there are no redemptions for like for instance when they genocided 5 planets. It's why vader's "redemption" came alongside immediate death. He did the one possible thing he could do to even remotely start making up for all the evil he'd done (by attempting to save the galaxy and his son from the emperor), and suffered a death penalty alongside his only possible redeeming act.

The force ghost at the end, when the original had it happen was fine because Vader was only amorphously evil and had, by his hand and command, killed very few people in fact. However after the prequel trilogy when Vader stopped being amorphously evil and became so definitively evil they should have taken that out.

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Oh, I don't think the prequels changed a jot. We already had the impression that Vader was a pretty wicked guy. After all, he did supposedly hunt down and kill the Jedi.

What we're seeing with Vader's redemption and appearance of his force ghost is Lucas's fairly hamhanded treatment of redemption in general. It's too fast, ultimately too easy, but it's important to the story arc, and to Luke's optimism and heroism. And the movie would suffer with its loss. Keep in mind this is a mythic journey, not the reality of morality and psychology.

Does anyone know who the old man at the beginning was? I was still euphoric after the scroll so I might have missed something.
1) he either knew where Skywalker was and created the information
2) he was entrusted with the information (and if so...by whom and why give it up...again, I really may have just missed the reason)
3) he apparently knew who Kylo Ren was (tho we didn't at the time...which confused me..heh)
4) he seemed to know some deep things about the Force (could just be my imagination)
5) did he have a Dooku vibe to anyone else?

halfling rogue said:

5) did he have a Dooku vibe to anyone else?

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Max Von Sydow. Certainly one of Christopher Lee's contemporaries. He was Ming the Merciless and Blofeld. You've probably seen him in loads of things.

His character name in this film is Lor San Tekka.

halfling rogue said:

Does anyone know who the old man at the beginning was? I was still euphoric after the scroll so I might have missed something.
1) he either knew where Skywalker was and created the information
2) he was entrusted with the information (and if so...by whom and why give it up...again, I really may have just missed the reason)
3) he apparently knew who Kylo Ren was (tho we didn't at the time...which confused me..heh)
4) he seemed to know some deep things about the Force (could just be my imagination)
5) did he have a Dooku vibe to anyone else?

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He's one of the questions raised by the movie. Unfortunately, I don't know that they'll answer this particular one, though I hope they'll answer why the Skywalker lightsaber called to Rey, who her parents are, and why she was left on Jakku.

billd91 said:

He's one of the questions raised by the movie. Unfortunately, I don't know that they'll answer this particular one, though I hope they'll answer why the Skywalker lightsaber called to Rey, who her parents are, and why she was left on Jakku.

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Same here, but the more burning question for me regarding the lightsaber is how (can't recall her name) the goggle/glasses alien came into possession of it. Han wanted to know the same thing. I don't know if her answer was a cop out or if they will address it later.

I was glad most of the questions I personally had were answered more or less in the film, or at least pulled along enough for me to realize they'll be addressed eventually. The only thing that bugged me (which really isn't a big deal) was the fact that Rey understood BB8. I always thought when R2 beeped and people understood him, it was because C3P0 was there, or there was some screen to interpret. But Rey had none of that, so I guess people can understand droid beeps. I mean, Chewie roars and barks and is understood so I guess it shouldn't be too big of a stretch!

Everyone in Star Wars understands droid beeps. It's just one of the things about that universe.