Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

Morrus · Dec 18, 2015

goldomark said:
I'm not impressed.

Shocker.

Kramodlog · Dec 18, 2015

Morrus said:
Shocker.

Having standards can be shocking to some. But please, continue to ignore my arguments and make this about me.

Morrus · Dec 18, 2015

goldomark said:
Having standards can be shocking to some. But please, continue to ignore my arguments and make this about me.

Edit -- on reflection, I came on a little strong there. Edited out the mod comment. I've dropped you a brief note.

Istbor · Dec 18, 2015

I was always in the belief that you either had to learn the droid beeps or be lucky enough to be a Jedi and pretty much understand everything through the force. That is what I thought was the first tip to Rey being a force adept. She understood both the droid and the Chewy.

I thought the movies were fine. While I do see the parallels with the previous movies, I thought that was done to simply draw us all in to the new additions to the saga, the following two may be completely unique now that we are 'hooked'.

Morrus · Dec 18, 2015

Istbor said:
I was always in the belief that you either had to learn the droid beeps or be lucky enough to be a Jedi and pretty much understand everything through the force.

I don't think so. I mean, sure you learn them, but everybody does. I can't think of anyone who was unable to understand droid beeps. I figure everyone grows up learning it.

Hypersmurf · Dec 18, 2015

Morrus said:
I can't think of anyone who was unable to understand droid beeps.

I'm trying to think of anyone in the original trilogy who can. In ESB, Luke reads the translation off his X-Wing screen; everywhere else, it's usually Threepio translating with "Sir, Artoo says..."

Example:
Luke Skywalker: What is it?
C-3P0: I'm afraid I'm not quite sure, sir. He says "I found her", and keeps repeating, "She's here."
Luke Skywalker: Well... who? Who has he found?
C-3P0: Princess Leia.
Luke Skywalker: The princess? She's here?
Han Solo: Princess?
Luke Skywalker: Where? Where is she?
Han Solo: Princess? What's going on?
C-3P0: Level 5, Detention block AA23. I'm afraid she's scheduled to be terminated.

If everyone understood Binary, they wouldn't need to go via Threepio for that conversation...

-Hyp.

Morrus · Dec 18, 2015

Hypersmurf said:
I'm trying to think of anyone in the original trilogy who can.

I don't know about the original trilogy, but certainly Anakin could in TPM. And I'm pretty sure I recall Luke talking to R2 on Dagobah.

But I think you're right. After a bit of investigation, I found this, which seems to answer the question pretty definitively.

[video=youtube;C-hFh35U3go]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-hFh35U3go[/video]

Klaus · Dec 18, 2015

Binary (droid bleeps) are an actual language in the Star Wars universe.

doctorbadwolf · Dec 19, 2015

Morrus said:
Ren's a title (like Darth); his name changed from Ben Solo to Kylo Ren when he joined the Knights of Ren. At least that's what I took from it.

And he is the master of the Knights of Ren. So, it's likely he turned many of Luke's other students, and killed or scattered the rest.

doctorbadwolf · Dec 19, 2015

Orlax said:
Similar feelings here. Going to the dark side properly involves doing things there are no redemptions for like for instance when they genocided 5 planets. It's why vader's "redemption" came alongside immediate death. He did the one possible thing he could do to even remotely start making up for all the evil he'd done (by attempting to save the galaxy and his son from the emperor), and suffered a death penalty alongside his only possible redeeming act.

The force ghost at the end, when the original had it happen was fine because Vader was only amorphously evil and had, by his hand and command, killed very few people in fact. However after the prequel trilogy when Vader stopped being amorphously evil and became so definitively evil they should have taken that out.

I disagree. Part of the point of that whole thing is that Anakin's actions as Vader set up the idea that the Dark Side kills the person who succumbs to it, and turns them into a people shaped monster, in both a moral and metaphysical sense.
Another important aspect of the Vader arc is that some crimes cannot be redeemed in life, but by bringing balance to the force, killing the only two Sith (himself and Sidius) and crippling the Empire he has sacrificed himself to give the galaxy a chance, a hope, of fixing the evil caused by the Empire.
If Lucas was willing to just call the story done, instead of seeking more cash, it would have been a perfect end. The Empire has lost, the Galaxy is saved from supernatural evil, the Force is healed, and he doesn't make any vain attempt to weasel out of his just punishment.
And for that sacrifice, he is redeemed in death, and becomes one with the Force, which he couldn't have done had he not found some measure of peace, and freed himself from the Dark Side. WHich is why I view putting young Anakin next to Ben and Yoda as pretty much the only correct addition/change to come out of that version of the films.

The Force isn't bound to a Judeo Christian morality of divine punishment for sins, and it certainly doesn't seem to function on a system where once tainted, you are just screwed forever. In the ethos of The Force, it seems, redemption isn't really about paying for your crimes, but more about finding absolution, and becoming a force for good, life, etc rather than corruption and death.