A Thought on Kylo Ren

Mallus · Jan 12, 2016

Kylo Ren is played by Adam Driver, so I wouldn't bet money against him being shipped.

Kylo Ren is also a character in the Star Wars universe, so I wouldn't bet money against him being redeemed, at least partially so, by the end of Episode IX. That's just how things roll in the moral universe of Star Wars.

I'm okay with that. Ethics work differently in fiction.

(and I agree, the comparison to real-life mass murderers is in pretty poor taste -- and I usually a fan of poor taste!)

Bedrockgames · Jan 12, 2016

I am seeing a lot of people hold up Kylo Ren as embodying this or that (and often they are contradictory things). My take is he is what happens when a young, overzealous person tries to embrace the Dark Side. I kind of like that it is this collision of hormones and dark spiritual energy.

I do think there is a difference though with this kind of over the top villain in a film and real life murderers. These are meant to be entertaining and frightening characters but people in the real world are a lot more complex and their crimes affect real people. Even though Vader killed a bunch of Jedi children, we can forgive him on screen because it is make believe and the arcs are condensed to fit the medium (which the viewer understands).

Kyo Ren is pretty comparable to Vader in terms of his crimes though. The only substantial difference is Ren killed his own father (but Vader killed his metaphorical father, Obi-Wan). Personally I think Vader seems a lot more comfortable with doing bad things than Kylo Ren does (though in fairness Kylo Ren hasn't had time to grow into those shoes yet).

Ryujin · Jan 12, 2016

Umbran said:
Well, petulant teenager, anyway. This is the problem with the Dark Side - it calls on users to *harness* anger, fear, jealousy, and pain. They have to be filled with it.

Teenagers can be rather rebellious, by their very nature, but I went for the age that I did for very specific reasons. Ever hear the expression "the terrible twos"? Age 2-3 is typically when a child learns the word "no." They apply it liberally, frequently coupled with physical tantrums. Imagine a two or three year old who learns the word "no" an has the capability to enforce his will by, say, crushing your windpipe.

Ren never matured, emotionally, beyond two or three years old.

Umbran · Jan 12, 2016

Ryujin said:
Ren never matured, emotionally, beyond two or three years old.

I said teenager fore very specific reasons, as well. Ren, to me, seems far more mature than 2 or 3. A 2 or 3 year old throws a violent outburst (as I understand it) largely because he or she has limited emotional vocabulary, and is establishing boundaries - what is allowed, and what is not. That child is, in essence, testing their parents to see what they can get away with.

By my recollection, Ren doesn't throw a tantrum when in the presence of someone he feels is superior (Snoke) or even peer (General Hux). He is not testing his boundaries, not trying to influence anyone with his outbursts. He knows that this is not acceptable behavior. That's not the behavior of a 2 or 3 year old.

Grumpy RPG Reviews · Jan 12, 2016

To my knowledge no one sexualized Vader, at least not to the degree they are doing so for Ren. Granted, Driver is an attractive fellow, but the linking of Ren and Rey bothers me for a host of reasons. It is arguably worse than that of Bella and Edward (Anastasia and Christian, Christine and Erik, etc.) in so far as they had a sexual relationship, while Ren and Rey do not. Fetishizing abusive relationships disturbs me.

Umbran · Jan 12, 2016

Grumpy RPG Reviews said:
Fetishizing abusive relationships disturbs me.

I think you may be overstating it by calling it fetishizing. I think it is more romanticizing - like, if you saw how the relationship in most romance novels play out in the real world, they'd be considered abusive....

Ryujin · Jan 12, 2016

Umbran said:
I said teenager fore very specific reasons, as well. Ren, to me, seems far more mature than 2 or 3. A 2 or 3 year old throws a violent outburst (as I understand it) largely because he or she has limited emotional vocabulary, and is establishing boundaries - what is allowed, and what is not. That child is, in essence, testing their parents to see what they can get away with.

By my recollection, Ren doesn't throw a tantrum when in the presence of someone he feels is superior (Snoke) or even peer (General Hux). He is not testing his boundaries, not trying to influence anyone with his outbursts. He knows that this is not acceptable behavior. That's not the behavior of a 2 or 3 year old.

Or the behaviour of a 3 year old with an abusive parent who won't take his crap. Boundaries tested and found.

Ovinomancer · Jan 13, 2016

Kylo doesn't act like a 3 year old. The 3 year old uses his outburst to try to gain control of the situation. Kylo uses his outbursts as a vent for anger. Is it still juvenile? Yes, pretty much in the same why that adults with anger management issues are juvenile in their outbursts. However, it's nowhere near the emotional and intellectual immaturity of a 3-year old. Not does it serve the same purpose.

Kylo has his tantrum, reigns it in, and then responds to the situation in a much more controlled manner. The 3 year old rarely does this absent pressure applied from the outside -- a punishment (such as a time out) or a concession that rewards the behavior. Kylo controls himself after each outburst, and then uses much more mature coping mechanisms to deal with the issue.

Honestly, trying to compare Kylo's outbursts to a three year old's tantrums kinda smacks of someone who doesn't have kids talking out of their nether orifice.

Umbran · Jan 13, 2016

Ryujin said:
Or the behaviour of a 3 year old with an abusive parent who won't take his crap. Boundaries tested and found.

That doesn't follow the behavior of abuse victims in the real world as I understand them (I'm not a mental health professional, but I have folks in my life with PTSD from abusive parents).

Which is not to say that Ren doesn't show signs of being in an abusive relationship - he *does*. But "3 year old" is *not* the result. I'm sorry, but I think your analogy to a 3 year old is simply not apt.

Eltab · Jan 15, 2016

Umbran said:
Well, petulant teenager, anyway. This is the problem with the Dark Side - it calls on users to *harness* anger, fear, jealousy, and pain. They have to be filled with it.

Would you consider this a fair analogy:
Gasoline is fuel to a car. It provides power, energy, and a push. Sith Lords should use their aggressive feelings to fuel their power in the Dark Side.
Gasoline poisons humans. Sith Lords are supposed to have control of their feelings, not drown in them.

Kylo Ren starts off by splashing himself with a face-full of gasoline.

A Thought on Kylo Ren

Mallus

Legend

Bedrockgames

Legend

Ryujin

Legend

Umbran

Mod Squad

Grumpy RPG Reviews

Explorer

Umbran

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Ryujin

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Ovinomancer

No flips for you!

Umbran

Mod Squad

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer

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