evidence for a 9th planet

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, we can actually go back to Neptune's discovery in the 1840s. That was based on deviations of Uranus's orbit compared to what it would have been just from orbiting the sun (and the influences of the inner planets). That's a fairly simple system: you're looking mostly at the influence of one planet (Neptune) on one other (Uranus). So the predicted location of Neptune was pretty precise. (I didn't know this before, but apparently Galileo spotted Neptune in an early telescope but probably couldn't have measured its motion compared to background stars.)

Pluto's discovery was also based on deviations of Uranus's orbit from what you'd expect after including the effects of Neptune. So that problem is harder, since you have to account for two planets (Neptune and Pluto) acting on Uranus. So I believe the predicted position for Pluto was a lot less precise. Combined with the fact that Pluto is pretty dim made it a lot harder to find Pluto.

What we have in the present case is some unexplained behavior of a lot of Kuiper belt objects. (Pluto and Sedna are dwarf planets and also large Kuiper belt objects.) Apparently, a lot of these are clustered in their orbits, and it's not known why. The two planet hunters have done a lot of simulations of what would happen if you took an initially uniform Kuiper belt full of planetoids and also had a big planet orbiting through it. What they say is that a planet with 10x the earth's mass and a certain orbit (and currently near the far point of its orbit) can explain this clustering (and do a better job than previous hypotheses). So you can see that this is a much harder problem than finding Pluto: you have to look at the effects on lots of objects, you don't know exactly what else is out there, and you have to assume the big planet is the biggest effect. Then you have to add in the fact that the objects you've measured haven't actually been discovered that long ago, so you haven't mapped much of their orbits. So I don't think the prediction is terribly precise, and it's pretty dim, too.

Here is a brief commentary on why finding this thing is hard.
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Can math help us here? As I understand it, newton's math helped us find some planets. If I recall Pluto was predicted with math. Sedna as well.

And it is math that's predicting this one, too.

Oh, and because it is relevant - from XKCD:

possible_undiscovered_planets.png
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Well, first we had one, not nine. :p

well seven really including the Moon, Mercury, Venus, the Sun, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn - all of which are visible with the naked eye and were known to ancient peoples. Thats even before the Earth was declared to also be a planet and the Sun and Moon were declared to be something else. IIRC the Earth became a planet in the 15th Century and although the Sun was first called a star in 450 BC that was disputed before the 17th century.
 
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Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
(I didn't know this before, but apparently Galileo spotted Neptune in an early telescope but probably couldn't have measured its motion compared to background stars.)

So I believe the predicted position for Pluto was a lot less precise. Combined with the fact that Pluto is pretty dim made it a lot harder to find Pluto.
As I heard it, Uranus was close to Jupiter when Galileo looked through his new telescope. He didn't notice because he was trying to absorb / interpret / understand all the 'new' stuff that he was looking at, and the moons of Jupiter were brighter and faster than Uranus. By the time he had a grasp on Jupiter and its moons, they had pulled ahead of Uranus.

Despite Pluto's "demotion", Mr. Tombaugh (sp?) found a planet by the hardest way yet known to man - comparing hundreds of photographs of sky, looking for a dot that moved.
 

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