[GUIDE] The Art of Battleraging

Lejaun

First Post
So with all this talk about multiclassing battle master, has anyone considered champion instead? I think improved critical, when combined with reckless attack, reckless abandon, and brutal critical, might warrant looking into. It's less on-demand damage and less utility, but I think a crit-fishing build fits with the Battlerager fluff very well.

Personally, I'd probably choose champion instead of the battle master if I had to, just for the ease and simplicity of it.

There is a beauty to adding a champion to a battlerager, of course. Changing critical hits from 5% (1 out of 20) to 10% (2 out of 20) is pretty big for any class. As you mentioned, rolling two dice instead of one for reckless attack and have a 10% chance of any roll being a critical already would make you a crit machine.

Personally, I still prefer the pure barbarian path. The possibility of 24 CON and STR naturally seems pretty huge. Of course, at level 20 you probably have had a fair shot at magical STR anyways....so who knows.
 

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Eric Edge

First Post
As you level higher monsters you cross might have non-magical weapon resistance. How would you circumvent this for spiked armor? Have magic armor crafted? Is that allowed in 5e? Also the real interest would be a bonus to attack/damage not necessarily AC.
 

Lejaun

First Post
As you level higher monsters you cross might have non-magical weapon resistance. How would you circumvent this for spiked armor? Have magic armor crafted? Is that allowed in 5e? Also the real interest would be a bonus to attack/damage not necessarily AC.

Magic armor can certainly be crafted. I imagine you would have to find a good dwarven smith to craft you an exception set of armor before having it enchanted. It may also be possible/cheaper to use high end metals like silver to bypass certain immunities.
 

Eric Edge

First Post
My level 5 Battlerager (str 18, con 18, dex 14, AC 16) recently acquired a Cloak of Displacement which gives disadvantage to attacks against me. I am fighting with a Greataxe and planned to go 20th Barb. But now that I have the cloak I am rethinking my build to be more tanky and harder to hit. Yet I hate to give up the damage output of my Greataxe.

A compromise might be to pick up a shield (bumping to 18 AC) then dip into fighter to pick up the Dueling fighting style to give +2 damage to a Battle-axe. If I went this route, I was contemplating progressing Barb 5/Fighter1. Then Barb 8/Fighter 2 to pick up a ASI to bring my strength to 20. Then go four more levels of Barb to 12 to pick up Shield Mastery Feat. Then two levels of fighters to get action surge and a Battlemaster archetype. Then Barb the rest of the way and increasing my con to 20. If I even play this character that far.

I play Adventure League so if I got to rank 3 in my faction I could work toward a +1 shield and +1 spiked armor. That would bump me to AC 20.

Not going 20 Barbarian means I would lose the 24 possibility to strength and constitution.

Thought? What are the pros and cons? What does the math look like comparing possibility to hit and damage?
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
My level 5 Battlerager (str 18, con 18, dex 14, AC 16) recently acquired a Cloak of Displacement which gives disadvantage to attacks against me. I am fighting with a Greataxe and planned to go 20th Barb. But now that I have the cloak I am rethinking my build to be more tanky and harder to hit. Yet I hate to give up the damage output of my Greataxe.

A compromise might be to pick up a shield (bumping to 18 AC) then dip into fighter to pick up the Dueling fighting style to give +2 damage to a Battle-axe. If I went this route, I was contemplating progressing Barb 5/Fighter1. Then Barb 8/Fighter 2 to pick up a ASI to bring my strength to 20. Then go four more levels of Barb to 12 to pick up Shield Mastery Feat. Then two levels of fighters to get action surge and a Battlemaster archetype. Then Barb the rest of the way and increasing my con to 20. If I even play this character that far.

I play Adventure League so if I got to rank 3 in my faction I could work toward a +1 shield and +1 spiked armor. That would bump me to AC 20.

Not going 20 Barbarian means I would lose the 24 possibility to strength and constitution.

Thought? What are the pros and cons? What does the math look like comparing possibility to hit and damage?

The defining mechanical feature of the battlerager subclass to me is that you get temp HPs that are refreshed every round. If you don't get hit, you effectively aren't using that feature that round. Switching more defensive has not only the opportunity cost of less damage, but also that you might not get to use your ability, especially since you don't grant advantage often.

I wouldn't suggest investing in one-handed damage for a battlerager. Besdies the above, it also dilutes later features like getting extra weapon dice on crit.

If you want to be a bit more defensive, you can go fighter and pick up the +1 AC while armored fighting style, which is half a shield without having to give up your two handed weapon. You might also want to carry a battleaxe and shield for fights where endurance is more important than damage but you are out of rages.
 

Markh3rd

Explorer
I think you underestimate the Grappler feat with this class. Advantage on all attacks against a creature you are grappling is huge. It even nets you advantage on a shove since that is a special attack if you want to give your friends advantage. But if the party is more ranged focused and don't want you to shove the target, no problem you still get advantage on all attacks and the target isn't going anywhere.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
I think you underestimate the Grappler feat with this class. Advantage on all attacks against a creature you are grappling is huge. It even nets you advantage on a shove since that is a special attack if you want to give your friends advantage. But if the party is more ranged focused and don't want you to shove the target, no problem you still get advantage on all attacks and the target isn't going anywhere.

That's not worth a half feat, let alone a full feat.
 


RogueJK

It's not "Rouge"... That's makeup.

Rogue
: It’s hard to utilize sneak attack in spiked armor and with short dwarven legs. Rogue fighting styles are the opposite of what you are about.

For a Grapple Barbarian like a Battlerager, I would certainly rate a 1 level Rogue dip as higher than Purple.

The big thing you gain is Expertise in Athletics. This doubles your proficiency bonus to your Athletics checks, which when combined with Rage's Advantage, makes your grapples/shoves almost certain to succeed, and nigh-impossible to escape from.

Sneak Attack is very useful too. It's not hard for a Battlerager (or any Grapple Barbarian) to utilize Sneak Attack. Sneak Attack does require you to use a Finesse-capable weapon, so that limits your melee weapon options to something like a Dagger, Rapier, Scimitar, Short Sword or Whip. But that's not a problem, since Grappling requires a free hand, and therefore you can only use a 1H weapon to attack someone you've Grappled anyway. And while the idea of a Battlerager using a dainty Rapier may seem odd, mechanically the 1d8+STR from a Rapier is the same as the 1d8+STR from a Warhammer or Battleaxe or Longsword. You could always refluff it as something like a Basket-hilted Broadsword, for a Highlander Battlerager. Or for a Steampunk Battlerager, that Rapier is refluffed as a spring-loaded retractable metal spike that deploys out of the forearm of his spiked gauntlet. Or with a Scimitar or Short Sword refluffed as a Cutlass, you've got a Pirate Battlerager.

As long as you're using one of those qualifying weapons, Sneak Attack applies when you have Advantage on an attack. Keep in mind that Reckless Attack grants you Advantage. So therefore, that's extra damage every round that you're Recklessly Attacking. You also gain Advantage on a Prone enemy, and a Prone Grappled enemy can't stand up. So if you Grapple an enemy and then Shove them Prone (or vice-versa), that's Advantage on every attack until the Grapple ends, which means Sneak Attack will apply every round you're attacking a Prone Grappled enemy, even without using Reckless Attack. (There are other sources of Advantage too, from certain spells and other enemy conditions.) Sneak Attack also applies when you don't have Advantage but another ally is within 5 feet of the same enemy, which means if your party contains at least 1 other melee fighter, or your party has a Summoner caster, you and one ally or summoned creature can both gang up on one enemy to trigger Sneak Attack even without Advantage.

So the 1d6 extra Sneak Attack damage from 1 level of Rogue could potentially apply to a large number of your attacks as a Battlerager, provided you're using the right weapon. And it means that Scimitar or Short Sword is now doing the same damage as a Greatsword (2d6+STR). Or a Rapier is now doing more damage than a Greatsword (1d8+1d6+STR). And unlike a 2H Greatsword, those 1H weapons can be used against an enemy that you're holding in a Grapple. Even if you don't plan to utilize Grappling very often, and want to play it more defensive, it still allows you to have Greatsword-style damage while wielding a Shield for +2 AC.

1 level of Rogue also gets you a few other skill-related benefits, like an extra skill proficiency, plus Thieves Tools proficiency, plus Expertise in a second skill besides Athletics. (I'd probably choose Perception.)

All that at the cost of merely delaying your Battlerager progress by 1 level.

Therefore, I'd rate 1 level in Rogue as Turquoise. Better than a Fighter dip, IMO. Not quite mandatory Gold, but a seriously good choice that will noticeably increase your grappling capability, add damage to most of your attacks, plus net you some other handy skill benefits to boot, all at a small cost of a slight delay.


Higher levels of Rogue aren't usually worth it, though. 2 levels of Rogue only gets you Cunning Action, which isn't of any use to you. Bonus Action Dash could be situationally useful, but you get that anyway at Battlerager 10. As a frontliner you will hardly ever be Disengaging. And you have Disadvantage on Stealth from your Spiked Armor so you won't be Hiding. Besides, you have other uses for your Bonus Actions, like making Spiked Armor attacks.

3 levels of Rogue does open up a couple interesting options, though. First, you get an extra 1d6 to your Sneak Attacks (+2d6 total), so your Scimitar/Short Sword is doing 3d6+STR damage on most attacks, and your Rapier is doing 1d8+2d6+STR on most attacks. You can also choose a Rogue Archetype. Mastermind, Inquisitive, Swashbuckler, and Arcane Trickster don't offer much of anything to you. Assassin could be somewhat useful, if you have a way of reliably generating surprise, allowing you to do a decent amount of extra damage in the first round of combat, provided you have a high Initiative. I'd recommend the Alert feat paired with a high DEX if you go this route. Thief could be slightly handy for exploration, with a bit better climbing and jumping ability to complement your high Athletics and STR score, and combined with the Healer feat and a Healer's Kit, you could make a decent backup healer with Bonus Action Use An Object.

Scout is where it gets really interesting. It gets you Proficiency and Expertise in a couple nature-related skills, and more importantly adds the interesting feature of Skirmisher. With this, you can move up to half your speed when an enemy ends their turn within 5 feet of you. If you have an enemy Grappled, they can't move, so they will have to end their turn within 5 feet of you. You can also drag a Grappled enemy with you when you move, although it cuts you down to half your speed. So if your DM is willing to play ball with the concept (which seems to work RAW), you could potentially Grapple an enemy on your turn and drag them half your speed. Then on their turn, when they end it still Grappled, you could drag them another quarter of your speed. (Half speed for Skirmisher, and half of that for dragging a Grappled enemy.) This could be really good when combined with a party caster running something like Create Bonfire, Cloud of Daggers, Spike Growth, or a similar spell, with you repeatedly dragging an enemy through a damaging spell area and triggering that damage, on both your turn as well as on the enemy's turn. This would work especially well with speed-boosting feats like Mobile or Squat Nimbleness.

So if you have the ability scores and feats to take advantage of Assassin or Thief, or you can work up a party strategy like the above for Scout, 3 levels of Rogue for an Archetype and extra Sneak Attack damage could potentially be worth the larger delay in Barbarian levels. Otherwise, it's not worth going past 1 level in Rogue.
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
How is advantage on all attacks not worth it, since it's something you're going to be doing anyway with this class?

You can already get advantage on all attacks with Reckless Attack. Between your resistance to B/P/S and the temp HPs you gain every round, the fact that a few more enemy attacks hit you in a round isn't a big deal. You need to use Reckless Attack to get those bonus tHPs every round, so you *already* have Advantage doing what you're going to do anyway.

Now, you may want to grapple because it helps your allies, but it doesn't grant you personally anything you shouldn't already have. And since you need a hand free to do a grapple you are depowering yourself holding a 1H weapon and no shield to do so. The 3 damage you do when initiating a grapple is lost in the +X rage damage the weapon attack would have brought.
 

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