D&D 5E Test of High Level 5E: Design 4 or 5 lvl 13 PCs for 6 to 8 encounter adventuring day

Azurewraith said:

Unfortunately you cannot choose the ancient treasure left behind.

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So true, so true. My two characters are presumed to have undertaken a wide variety of adventures in the past and acquired a semi-random collection of items and spells which are not necessarily ideal for this adventure. Indeed, when they got up this morning and prepared their spells, they didn't even know they were going on this adventure. They only found out about ten minutes ago. That's why they aren't optimized for whatever it is we are imagining this adventure is going to be like.

On the other point, if you make it virtually taken for granted that darkness isn't a problem, there's no real point in having dark and gloomy dungeons. Which would be a shame. I like my dungeons to be dark and gloomy, with flambeau cressets and whatnot.

BoldItalic said:

So true, so true. My two characters are presumed to have undertaken a wide variety of adventures in the past and acquired a semi-random collection of items and spells which are not necessarily ideal for this adventure. Indeed, when they got up this morning and prepared their spells, they didn't even know they were going on this adventure. They only found out about ten minutes ago. That's why they aren't optimized for whatever it is we are imagining this adventure is going to be like.

On the other point, if you make it virtually taken for granted that darkness isn't a problem, there's no real point in having dark and gloomy dungeons. Which would be a shame. I like my dungeons to be dark and gloomy, with flambeau cressets and whatnot.

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If you do not optimize your character, this exercise is pointless and will result in nothing revealed. The idea is that folks like myself, CapnZapp, and Zard run in groups that optimize their characters. That leads to a much easier defeat of encounters and increases the difficulty of encounter construction. This isn't an exercise of, "I can design random lvl 13 characters and create challenges." Anyone can do that. The challenge is optimized characters against what the DM creates to prove that even optimized characters will suffer against a 6-8 encounter adventuring day.

This isn't a run for fun. This is a stress test of the system. It's important you optimize your character mechanically for this test or the results will provide zero evidence of what we are trying to prove.

Iserith and Flamestrike are both aware that optimized characters against a six to eight encounter day using monsters from the Monster Manual adjusted with possibly terrain obstacles and social or exploration encounters is the test. Flamestrike has included a time limit to limit rest opportunities. I'm allowing this for the moment, but will only consider it one result because you can't use time limits in every high level encounter.

As far as your spell list, they better be optimal as well including spells fly, fireball, and other optimal spells or this is not worth discussing because CapnZapp, Zard, and myself will look at the suboptimal characters our group would never build as too weak to run the test.

The spell list should include staples of any competent wizard intended to control the battlefield:
Spells Known:
Cantrips: fire bolt, shocking grasp. chill touch, light
Spellbook
1st: shield, absorb elements
2nd: mirror image,
3rd: fly, fireball
4th: banishment, counterspell, dispel magic
5th: wall of force
6th: disintegrate
7th: teleport



Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...ncounter-adventuring-day/page17#ixzz41iC7jPFI

Azurewraith said:

This is one thing I hate about darkvision it becomes mandatory pretty much unless your in a place with other non darkvision monsters in which case why are they there?

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I think that tool using monsters would usually have light sources around. Halfway intelligent ones might extinguish those light sources when faced with an attack, but I think, in general, creatures like kobolds would have their lair lit.

meshon said:

I think that tool using monsters would usually have light sources around. Halfway intelligent ones might extinguish those light sources when faced with an attack, but I think, in general, creatures like kobolds would have their lair lit.

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This was my thinking as well.

That is, occupied complexes would most likely be torch lit for convenience. Darkvision is not as good as visibility, you can not see the stuff your working on, and or looking for as good as if you had a light source; So those types of creatures would ensconce their lairs and hidey holes with torches.

now, on the other hand~ dark and forgotten tombs full of undead and lost tunnels or abandoned mine shafts full of all sorts of blind subterranean creatures is a completely different story, and would require the party to be prepared for such a thing as zero light sources.

BoldItalic said:

Edward pulled out a massive tome bound in dragon hide with mithral hinges. He opened it carefully at a special page. Arcane symbols danced around on the page, as if they were trying avoid each other.

"When we're all here," he explained to Thomas, "with Myrkyn, the princess, if she ever gets here, and whoever else joins us, I'm going to cast this special ritual. It's called Rary's Telepathic Bond."

Bedrock nodded, but Thomas looked suitably mystified.

"What it does," continued Edward, "is to allow us all to communicate with each other just by thinking, without having to talk out loud. It takes a little getting used to, but you'll soon see, when it starts working. Just think of it like a Sending but bigger. It works over any distance, it will work for all of us at once, and it lasts for a whole hour."

"I'm impressed," said Thomas, "Is it new?"

"Yes, I only got hold of it recently. A mutual acquaintance put me in touch with old Rary himself."

"So, let me get this straight, we can talk amongst ourselves secretly even if we get separated, and no-one else can hear us?"

"Yes. I'll include Myrkyn so we can keep him informed of progress."

"What happens when the hour is up?"

"Then I have to cast it again, if we want to go on using it. Ideally, I need ten minutes to set it up, but in emergency I can do it quickly. But we'd all have to stick together because anyone missing when I cast it again won't get included in the new circle."

"What about Myrkyn?"

"After the first hour, he will be left out and we're on our own until we get back here."

"I like it."

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"So just to be clear Edward no one else can hear us no one at all? I mean absolutely no one, not demons?, not the gods? Oh and when I'm out and about doing my thing I hum very loudly and often sing the halfling friendship song, the abridged version naturally. Just a warning.

BoldItalic said:

Bedrock and Edward discussed the situation between themselves.

"So, it's save the world and back home in time for dinner," offered Bedrock.
"I think that's number seven, then," replied Edward, checking his diary.
"What do you reckon?"
"We might need Tom. He good in a tight squeeze."
"Right. Just don't turn your back on him."
"That's why we keep him in front of us."
"Scouting."
"Quite."
"Anyone else?"
"I suppose we have to have Princess Snowflake?"
"She's very effective. And she looks good in a slinky dress."
"I know, it's just that, whenever we do Rary's Telepathic Bond, she has these pictures in her head .."
"I know what you mean. Spiky."
"By the way, I haven't told anyone about, you know .."
"Thanks. It's a family thing."
"Not having much of a family, it wouldn't matter to me anyway."
"You're practically family to us, Edward. Lulu likes you."
"I can't get used to calling your sister Lulu."
"Well, if you address her as Liskeard Luxulyan Trelawny, she'll assume you're proposing."
"Last time I saw her, she called me a slob with the manners of a pig."
"Shows she cares. You'd have my blessing."
"Talking of weddings, reckon we'll get a cleric this trip?"
"Bound to. End-Of-The-World-Is-Nigh, the gods are bound to take an interest and send their own man along."

At that moment, the door opened and in walked ..


Just a bit of bonding between the PCs. Bedrock has a motive for protecting Edward, but the bonding with the other PCs is still undefined.

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Azurewraith said:

"Why hello there chaps just revived a voice inside my head telling me to meet you here. I'm coming in through the window as well there's been a terrible mix up I was visiting stan at the brewery just out side of town, turns out he had one of those bottomless tankards. One thing lead to another and it ended up in my backpack, when I tried to give it back well, urn, he started foaming at the mouth accused me of stealing the damn thing, The nerve. Turns out he's really mad and head of the thieves guild... wants me dead. Me of all people. Oh hello there(looks towards myrkyn) Thomas Bushbriar. I hear some magic artifacts.. I mean the world needs saving.

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BoldItalic said:

Edward pulled out a massive tome bound in dragon hide with mithral hinges. He opened it carefully at a special page. Arcane symbols danced around on the page, as if they were trying avoid each other.

"When we're all here," he explained to Thomas, "with Myrkyn, the princess, if she ever gets here, and whoever else joins us, I'm going to cast this special ritual. It's called Rary's Telepathic Bond."

Bedrock nodded, but Thomas looked suitably mystified.

"What it does," continued Edward, "is to allow us all to communicate with each other just by thinking, without having to talk out loud. It takes a little getting used to, but you'll soon see, when it starts working. Just think of it like a Sending but bigger. It works over any distance, it will work for all of us at once, and it lasts for a whole hour."

"I'm impressed," said Thomas, "Is it new?"

"Yes, I only got hold of it recently. A mutual acquaintance put me in touch with old Rary himself."

"So, let me get this straight, we can talk amongst ourselves secretly even if we get separated, and no-one else can hear us?"

"Yes. I'll include Myrkyn so we can keep him informed of progress."

"What happens when the hour is up?"

"Then I have to cast it again, if we want to go on using it. Ideally, I need ten minutes to set it up, but in emergency I can do it quickly. But we'd all have to stick together because anyone missing when I cast it again won't get included in the new circle."

"What about Myrkyn?"

"After the first hour, he will be left out and we're on our own until we get back here."

"I like it."

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Hah, nice

We now have 5 X PCs in the bar (Paladin, Bard, Rogue, Wizard and Cleric) and a rather quizzical Myrkyn.

I'm taking from the above text that Edward wants to cast Rarys telepathic bond as a ritual?

That'll take 10 minutes obviously.

During that time, does anyone have any questions of Myrkyn (I ask this noting the Bard has a persuasion skill bonus of a whopping +14)? It looks like we all have 10 minutes to do so while the ritual is being cast.

I'll finalise the encounters now that I have the final PCs and run the encounters past Iserith for a final look (might add a non-combat encounter for a laugh), and will log back in in a few hours to answer any questions you want to run past Myrkyn before we kick off.

Flamestrike said:

Hah, nice

We now have 5 X PCs in the bar (Paladin, Bard, Rogue, Wizard and Cleric) and a rather quizzical Myrkyn.

I'm taking from the above text that Edward wants to cast Rarys telepathic bond as a ritual?

That'll take 10 minutes obviously.

During that time, does anyone have any questions of Myrkyn (I ask this noting the Bard has a persuasion skill bonus of a whopping +14)? It looks like we all have 10 minutes to do so while the ritual is being cast.

I'll finalise the encounters now that I have the final PCs and run the encounters past Iserith for a final look (might add a non-combat encounter for a laugh), and will log back in in a few hours to answer any questions you want to run past Myrkyn before we kick off.

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Ooc just a quick question perception or investigation for finding traps? And thieves tools or sleight of hand for disarming them? It was brought to my attention that I was using my long standing house rules during char Gen silly me. Next question pop up hiding yay or nay?

So I'm assuming we get to choose where we get our plot of land, oh great esteemed wizard fellow. I only ask as well big people you know.. sometimes miss us on their haste and barge us about. Second point I'm assuming what we finds we keeps?

Azurewraith said:

Ooc just a quick question perception or investigation for finding traps? And thieves tools or sleight of hand for disarming them? It was brought to my attention that I was using my long standing house rules during char Gen silly me. Next question pop up hiding yay or nay?

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Generally speaking:

Passive perception is required to spot something is amiss or detect the presence of a trap. Generally only the front rank get a check. Unless moving at a slow pace (or you have the Dungeon Delver feat) you incur a -5 to your passive perception score.

Investigation is used to figure out how a trap works, what it does if you set it off, and how to disarm it. If you want to search a specific object to determine if its trapped, or has a secret compartment, generally you're using investigation.

Theives tools proficiency disarms traps, and open locks.

All three are not always needed. Often only one check will suffice. If you can figure out how a trap works with an investigation check, you can generally simply avoid the trap, or spring it from saftey. If you spot a hidden pit or tripwire with perception, you can usually just jump over it. Etc.

From a 3.5 perspective think of Perception as
[Listen/spot] and investigation as [Search] and theives tools proficiency as [Disable device/ pick locks]