New DM Quest Rewards available on DM's Guild

Ainulindalion · Mar 18, 2016

Based on the announced target of Level 8 for a straight playthrough for a single PC, DM rewards would look like (at a guess):

4-1: 500 XP, 25 DT, 250 GP, First Timer, Wanderer of the Mists
4-2: 150 XP, 5 DT, 75 GP
4-3: 150 XP, 5 DT, 75 GP
4-4: 300 XP 10 DT, 150 GP
4-5: 225 XP, 5 DT, 112.5 GP
4-6: 425 XP, 10 DT, 212.5 GP, Local Hero
4-7: 875 XP, 10 DT, 437.5 GP, Dedicated DM
4-8: 450 XP, 5 DT, 225 GP
4-9: 500 XP, 5 DT, 250 GP
4-10: 1000 XP, 10 DT, 500 GP
4-11: 1000 XP, 10 DT, 500 GP
4-12: 625 XP, 5 DT, 312.5 GP
4-13: 625 XP, 5 DT, 312.5 GP
4-14: 1250 XP, 10 DT, 625 GP, Dedicated DM, Hero of the Land, Agent of the Tarokka

Total Standard Rewards: 8075 XP, 120 DT, 4037.5
Total Quest Rewards: Potion of Healing, Uncommon Oil or Potion, Uncommon Spell Scroll or Potion, Rare Scroll or Potion, 1 Tier Appropriate Magic Item from 4-2 through 4-14, 2 Tier Appropriate Magic Items from any module you've ever run, 1 Renown for Each Character, 35000 XP

Yes, if you assign everything to a single character, you could build a pretty munchkin build (level 8 character (46850 XP) with 3 selected magic items).

Explain how that's different than groups of players cherry-picking old modules that they've already played and knowing who will get the magic item ahead of time?

Oh, wait, it isn't any different. Munchkins gonna munchkin.

It's nice to be concerned, but frankly, if it increases the number of games being run, I'm not at all worried.

rczarnec · Mar 18, 2016

Pauper said:
And given that there's only one generally-available module for Tier 3 even released, and that the admins have explicitly identified power-creep as an issue with past Organized Play campaigns, I'm not convinced we'll see a lot of that going forward. Your mileage may vary, of course.

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Pauper

2

There are two available tier 3 adventures (DDEX3-4 & DDEX3-16)

kalani · Mar 18, 2016

Agreed. I am not worried about this as most DMs would use this to keep their various characters at a level-appropriate range (rather than creating a super-L8 character from scratch). Even if they did create a brand new L8 character, they still need to play tier-appropriate adventures - and have put in considerable effort for the opportunity.

Even in the case of the munchkin character - I am not worried at all. They have put in the effort, they can have the character they want.

And in respect to DMs who will cheat and falsify their DM Quest card - they are really only cheating themselves, their players, and their community by falsifying the record (as games aren't being run if people are falsifying records). Not only that, but it is easy to spot cheating like this.....

The easiest way to spot such cheaters (in respect to DM Quests) is when the DM (or player for that matterr) doesn't have any clue whats happening when discussing / playing a mod they have supposedly run /played previously. This combined with the fact that these rewards will become available over the course of a full season (as a trickle), the fact that a cheater could more easily falsify a PCs logsheets, the fact that DM Quest rewards don't allow DMs to cherry-pick items from the hardcover adventures, and the fact that cheaters typically prefer instant gratification - I don't see this as a problem.

If someone is going to cheat, they will simply create a false logsheet for their character, complete with any magic items they wanted for their character.

The only reward that I can see people cheating with are the "Master of the Mists", "Noble of Phlan" and "Lord of the Demiplane of Dread" quests.... Two of which will require the DM to provide proof of their accomplishments to the admins (who I have confidence will spot the fakes easily enough).

kalani · Mar 18, 2016

rczarnec said:
2

There are two available tier 3 adventures (DDEX3-4 & DDEX3-16)

Not entirely true. There is also RoT, PotA, and OotA which have Tier 3 support; as well as the (highly exclusive) DDAO modules - one of which even supports Tier 4!

rczarnec · Mar 18, 2016

kalani said:
Not entirely true. There is also RoT, PotA, and OotA which have Tier 3 support; as well as the (highly exclusive) DDAO modules - one of which even supports Tier 4!

Pauper was talking about generally available tier 3 adventures, which would eliminate the DDAO adventures.

Pauper · Mar 18, 2016

rczarnec said:
Pauper was talking about generally available tier 3 adventures, which would eliminate the DDAO adventures.

Thanks. Looks like I need a Snickers.

I can accept missing DDEX 3-16, since it was just released *this week*, but it turns out that I also misread the XP chart, and even my generous reading of Season 4 XP will only get me to level 9, not level 10.

Of course, that won't be an issue for me, as my birthday arrives during the season, and the 14,000 XP I'll get for that (my first session as DM occurred in 1981) will more than make up for any deficiency in my other math skills.

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Pauper

Pauper · Mar 18, 2016

kalani said:
I see it as comparable overall. Why people seem to think DMs should put in 5X the work and get nothing (or very little) for their effort is beyond me. Everyone is there to enjoy themselves and everyone is there to help create a shared story (both the players and DM included). If players earn rewards for their participation (in terms of XP/treasure/items/DT/Renown), why should the DM miss out on an equivalent reward - esp. in light of the increased effort, prep time, etc?

My opinion only.

That's fine. My point, though, is not that DM's should not be rewarded. I think the idea that 'giving out XP' as the reward hasn't been completely thought through as to the effect it will have on the campaign. I'll admit I could be wrong; I hope I am. But if I go to GenCon 2017 and end up sitting at tables with a bunch of over-optimized characters from local DMs taking advantage of their DM rewards, I'll be very disappointed.

I'd like to point out one other drawback to the system, for those who run in stores -- store organizers are not obligated to have their DMs run adventures from the current season. So if you're planning on racking up a lot of these DM Quests at your store, because that's where you run AL, and the organizer is dead-set on getting through Season 2, well, I feel bad for you, son.

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Pauper

kalani · Mar 18, 2016

Nods. Older adventures only count toward a handful of quests (as shown in my clarifications post) - the best of which is "Dedicated DM".

felwred · Mar 22, 2016

Pauper said:
That's fine. My point, though, is not that DM's should not be rewarded. I think the idea that 'giving out XP' as the reward hasn't been completely thought through as to the effect it will have on the campaign. I'll admit I could be wrong; I hope I am. But if I go to GenCon 2017 and end up sitting at tables with a bunch of over-optimized characters from local DMs taking advantage of their DM rewards, I'll be very disappointed.

I'd like to point out one other drawback to the system, for those who run in stores -- store organizers are not obligated to have their DMs run adventures from the current season. So if you're planning on racking up a lot of these DM Quests at your store, because that's where you run AL, and the organizer is dead-set on getting through Season 2, well, I feel bad for you, son.

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Pauper

Pauper - Having done GenCon in 2014 and 2015 (and plan to go this year) - if we actually got tables full of people who have DM'd, it would be a rarity. Generally, half the tables for tier 1 and 2 are people who mostly understand their characters (more in tier 2) but still need help on how their abilities work. Sometimes you do run into min/maxxed characters - nobody with DM rewards could stand up to those. These characters by level 9 have pretty significant equipment that would not be available to DM's. In one group I DM, there is a level 8 paladin with dawnbringer, a +2 shield, and had traded with another player to get dwarven plate (yes, that means an AC of 24 before other modifiers and a legendary weapon). That's 2 very rare and 1 legendary items on a single character. Anyone who runs through Curse of Strahd in a party of 5 or less people will have 1 legendary item, 2 very rares, and another 2-3 other items (plus dark blessings). Having 3 rares chosen from what has appeared in AL so far isn't that crazy. The best combo I can think of is maybe an instrument of the bards, a necklace of prayer beads, and a +2 weapon. I've definitely seen much worse. Keep in mind, a lot of players took advantage of the sword coast rebuild as well and altered their characters equivalent to just building a new character but still keeping everything.

Fred