Question For Viking Experts

Andrew D. Gable

First Post
What was the Scandinavian region like in the time of the Roman Empire? Did the Vikings (if such they even were at that time) have the same gods (Odin, Thor, etc.) as later in their history? I believe they were around, as the Norsemen had contact with the Irish fairly early on.
 

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Valiantheart

First Post
They were very similar to Goths o Visigoths culturally at the time. Also, many modern Russians are of Scandanavian descent. Their religion was intact during those times as well.
 

prodawg

First Post
A side note on that, many modern Russians are descendents of the Vikings but they did not venture deep into the Mediterranean until the Dark ages. Vikings reached into Russian mainly through the Black Sea. Modern descendents are also the Normans which conquered England in 1066.
As for during Roman times, they were issolated than what we commonly think of the raider Vikings today. The Gauls were in France and the Anglo Saxons were in Great Britain, which are more Germanic I believe. Some Vikings were hired as Roman mercenaries to help defend England against the raiding Saxons. It probably would not be a far stretch to say that they had contact with the Irish. Who was in Ireland at that time?
 

Umbran

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Valiantheart said:
Their religion was intact during those times as well.

Intact, but it's important to note that the religion changed over time. Drastically.

For example, "Odin Allfather" wasn't always the leader of the pantheon. Originally, Odin was a messenger-god more analogous to Hermes than Zeus. In earlier times, the head-man position was held by Tiw (or alternately Tiwes, the god today we call Tyr, and for whom Tuesday is named).
 

firstborne

First Post
prodawg said:
Who was in Ireland at that time?

The Celts. They were also in Britain, France, and Iberia. And, to the best of my knowledge, the Saxons were "vikings", ie. germanic peoples who went raiding up and down the rivers and along the coasts of Europe. (They referred to the practice as "viking.") Also, as the northmen spread, established colonies, and began trading more than raiding, worship of Thor, a more dependable and benign god, supplanted worship of the all-father.

Useless fact of the day: We get "Wednesday" from Wodan's day, dedicated to the All-Father.
 

Umbran

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firstborne said:
Useless fact of the day: We get "Wednesday" from Wodan's day, dedicated to the All-Father.

To be complete:
Tuesday = Tiw's (Tyr's) day
Wednesday = Wodan's (Odin's) day
Thursday = Thor's day
Friday = Frey's day

Actually, for Friday, there's a bit of confusion. It could be named for Frey (aka Freyr), or for Freya. They form a matched male/female set, so some think it's named for both at once.

Monday = Moon's day
Sunday = Sun's day
Saturday = Saturn's day

Why, amongst all the Norse, moon and sun we get one Greco-Roman dude, I have no idea.
 


Liquide

DEX: 4
Umbran said:


To be complete:
Tuesday = Tiw's (Tyr's) day
Wednesday = Wodan's (Odin's) day
Thursday = Thor's day
Friday = Frey's day

Actually, for Friday, there's a bit of confusion. It could be named for Frey (aka Freyr), or for Freya. They form a matched male/female set, so some think it's named for both at once.

Monday = Moon's day
Sunday = Sun's day
Saturday = Saturn's day

Why, amongst all the Norse, moon and sun we get one Greco-Roman dude, I have no idea.

Well for the swedish names of the day of the week.

Monday (Måndag): Day of the Moon (Månens Dag)
Tuesday (Tisdag): Day of Tyr (Tyrs Dag)
Wednesday (Onsdag): Day of Oden (Odens Dag)
Thursday (Torsdag). Day of Tor (Tors Dag)
Fridag (Fredag): Day of Frej/Freja (Frejs/Frejas Dag)
Lördag (Saturday): Day of Cleaning (Lögaredag)
Sundag (Söndag): Day of the Sun (Solens Dag)

That is at least how I have been thaugt what the names mean :) from swedish historical times
 

fusangite

First Post
What was the Scandinavian region like in the time of the Roman Empire?

Not a lot is known. There is a great deal of conjecture. A few things that are known -- the various Germanic federati of the empire appear to have come from this region originally. We also know that by the late imperial period 300-500, the ethnic makeup of the region was much as it is today except that the Geats and Jutes were distinct national identities.

One thing historians are fairly certain of -- the naval technology of the Viking period was developed fairly soon before the raids began. Previous naval technology had apparently been less sophisticated.

In the period from 500 BC to 500 CE, it is clear that the region underwent very significant changes in ethnic makeup and population.

Starting in the 4th or 5th century, the migration of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes to Britain began. This is a period of which there is very little actual primary historical data to go from.

The terms Norman, Northman and Viking originate in the 8th and 9th centuries. You're better off treating the people of the region as separate but similar ethnicities.

As for the Russia hypothesis, recent scholarship has cast serious doubt on the Russians being substantially German in origin though it may be true that their first (Rurikovich) dynasty was founded by a Northman.

I'm not a Norse mythology expert but it should be noted that the tribes who left the region earlier (such as the Goths) appear to have worshipped different gods. As I understand it, a key god in the Gothic pantheon was Xoanon.
 

tarchon

First Post
The Vikings came centuries after the end of the Western empire, and first start to be noted as a distinct cultural phenomenon in the 8th century.
The exact origin of the term is still debated, but it was used among Norse speakers to denote those who subscribed to the particular wide-ranging seagoing lifestyle we're familiar with. It didn't always necessarily imply raiding and pillaging, but that aspect of it is what came most strongly to the attention of neighboring peoples who called them variously Danes, Northmen, Rus, and Varangians, among other things.

The Viking phenomenon appeared toward the end of a period often called "the Migration Age," during which numerous Germanic-speaking tribal groups expanded into new territories throughout Europe and even as far as North Africa, where the Vandals set up a short lived empire. The beginning of the Migration Age coincides with the death throes of the Western Empire, and those two currents of history are strongly related to one another. The earlier groups, Franks, Vandals, Goths, Saxons, etc. are not usually referred to as Vikings, though their cultures had some similar traditions.

The highly developed mythology that we usually call Norse was mostly recorded toward the end of or even after the time of the Vikings (and after Christianization), and so it may not even accurately represent the Viking worldview, much less those of earlier peoples.

On the other hand, at least some of Norse mythology certainly reflects earlier traditions. Evidence of characters corresponding to several of the gods, Thor, Tyr, Freya, and Odhin particularly, can be seen at least back to the 6th century, and Tacitus in the 1st century notes some customs and beliefs among continental Germanic tribes which are fairly clearly related to some we see in the sagas.

However, it is clear that there were some major developments, many of them quite regional, over the millenium between Tacitus and Sturluson. The so-called Odinic cult that colors the Eddas so strongly probably developed long after Tacitus for example, and one cult idea which we know from archaeology to have been centrally important in the time of the Roman Empire, the three Deae Matres, only shows faint traces in Viking and post-Viking belief.

Confusing the issue, many tribes, lacking a written tradition, easily took up foreign ideas and quickly began to think of them as their own while they wandered around the Empire looking for better opportunities. The later Goths in particular were so heterogeneous in their ethnic makeup and so well travelled that it's difficult to know what to make of the scattered references to their pre-Christian beliefs.

Scandinavia itself before the Viking period is poorly known to history, though there are a few odd and fairly interesting notes on the region in Tacitus and a few other sources. Tacitus did give some Scandinavian tribal names that appear to correspond to some known later, so what he says can't be entirely dismissed as fantasy, but it's likely to be a little distorted.

-Neither a Viking Nor an Expert
 
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